a letter from a friend (he's a professor in the USA)

Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Tollorin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

12 Sep 2009, 9:49 pm

Orwell wrote:
Cyanide wrote:
He's definitely right about one thing... The United States is going to collapse. It'll be strange, but we'll have the first negative immigration rate ever in our 233-year history.

I would be willing to bet that you are wrong on that. America will come out of the recession in the next year or two, and things will be more or less back to normal without any collapse. Our national debt will likely remain high, but China isn't going to suddenly call it all in at once. Immigration to the US will remain at a net positive for foreseeable future, and the US will continue to be the dominant world power.

Until the next economic crisis that is. :roll:
It's not like the investors are less greedy or gain some wisdom. They will another buble...



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

12 Sep 2009, 10:15 pm

As a native born American citizen who moved out of the US quite a few years ago I can contrast my present situation with what I would be if I stayed in New York City. I made several efforts to return and earn a basic living standard and found it not possible. I am college educated with professional experience and I am better off now where I am. Whether the fault is my own or the present US culture I cannot say but I suspect I am not totally innocent for various reasons but they are not for lack of trying and a willingness to work. Nevertheless I am not sorry to be where I am.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

12 Sep 2009, 10:25 pm

Cyanide wrote:
I think you're waaaaay too optimistic here. I think we're going to end up in an inflationary depression that will last all through next decade... and make the 30s look like a cakewalk. I don't think it'll be as bad as Zimbabwe, but it still won't be pretty.

The government is reporting the unemployment rate at slightly under 10 right now. But if you put in discouraged workers and the underemployed (who used to be included back in the 30s), the unemployment rate is really at 16.8%.

"Optimist." That's not an accusation I often receive. Make the 30s look like a cakewalk? Please. We had a freaking decade-long famine ruin much of our agricultural productivity. There literally was not enough for everyone to be fed. Today our population is several times larger and we have more than enough food for everyone to grow fat while still exporting to the rest of the world. This isn't the Apocalypse. It's a temporary recession like the ones that come periodically, and it's no bigger a deal than all the rest. It will pass, we'll get into economic good times, and everyone will forget all this silly fear-mongering about the imminent collapse of America. Then we'll hit another recession after maybe a decade or so of good times. Rinse and repeat.

If the US ever loses its massively dominant international position, it will follow the British pattern of slowly declining from being the world power to simply being one of a number of important countries, not the German model of complete destruction and economic collapse or the Soviet model of disintegration.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

12 Sep 2009, 10:27 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Cyanide wrote:
He's definitely right about one thing... The United States is going to collapse. It'll be strange, but we'll have the first negative immigration rate ever in our 233-year history.

I would be willing to bet that you are wrong on that. America will come out of the recession in the next year or two, and things will be more or less back to normal without any collapse. Our national debt will likely remain high, but China isn't going to suddenly call it all in at once. Immigration to the US will remain at a net positive for foreseeable future, and the US will continue to be the dominant world power.

Until the next economic crisis that is. :roll:
It's not like the investors are less greedy or gain some wisdom. They will another buble...


I think the biggest bubble is the military industrial complex. There's a vast amount of overspending in that field with weapons and equipment created that never get used and have no practical civilian uses. Yet it somehow helps bloat our economy and keep it afloat despite its patent uselessness.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Loborojo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,242
Location: Negombo

13 Sep 2009, 4:52 pm

Orwell wrote:
What is he a professor of? And at what university?


Mathematics...in oops
and I am sure he is aspie too


_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

13 Sep 2009, 5:11 pm

Loborojo wrote:
Orwell wrote:
What is he a professor of? And at what university?


Mathematics...in oops
and I am sure he is aspie too

Oops? What? Is that the name of a university?

Math professors are not in the best position to comment on sociology or politics. They should stick to their theorems.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

13 Sep 2009, 6:00 pm

Orwell wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
Orwell wrote:
What is he a professor of? And at what university?


Mathematics...in oops
and I am sure he is aspie too

Oops? What? Is that the name of a university?

Math professors are not in the best position to comment on sociology or politics. They should stick to their theorems.


skafather84 wrote:
Sounds like your professor friend doesn't spend much time in society and spends too much time hating society. Get help for him before he guns down a classroom full of students.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Loborojo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,242
Location: Negombo

13 Sep 2009, 8:09 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
Orwell wrote:
What is he a professor of? And at what university?


Mathematics...in oops
and I am sure he is aspie too

Oops? What? Is that the name of a university?

Math professors are not in the best position to comment on sociology or politics. They should stick to their theorems.


skafather84 wrote:
Sounds like your professor friend doesn't spend much time in society and spends too much time hating society. Get help for him before he guns down a classroom full of students.


I don´t think I am entitled to give away his location.
Mybe you should read an article on the food crisis Special Report "FEEDING THE WORLD" in the National Geographic issue of June 2009.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

13 Sep 2009, 8:48 pm

Loborojo wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
Orwell wrote:
What is he a professor of? And at what university?


Mathematics...in oops
and I am sure he is aspie too

Oops? What? Is that the name of a university?

Math professors are not in the best position to comment on sociology or politics. They should stick to their theorems.


skafather84 wrote:
Sounds like your professor friend doesn't spend much time in society and spends too much time hating society. Get help for him before he guns down a classroom full of students.


I don´t think I am entitled to give away his location.
Mybe you should read an article on the food crisis Special Report "FEEDING THE WORLD" in the National Geographic issue of June 2009.


I'm a big fan of zero population growth but no one actually wants to address the actual problem of uncontrolled population growth.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

13 Sep 2009, 9:52 pm

Well, that was certainly a BIASED viewpoint. Wasn't it?

Your professor friend has one thing right...the dilution of education. Rather than people hungry to get educated and be successful, college has been promoted as a "get there fast" scheme because 40-50 years ago those who went to college made big money upon graduation.

Honey, that is ancient history. Colleges are everywhere, most anyone can go, and there are so many college graduates in the labor market that the paper is hardly marketable. With ever rising college costs and the contraction of the job market, schools are DESPERATE to pack bodies into the classroom.

Obama would be loved in any other nation because pretty much the rest of the industrialized nation has gone socialist in its economic policies. America is not a socialist nation. Socialism did not build the quality of life Americans enjoy, and socialism will not preserve it.

Our nation has flaws, but chucking into the failed policies of other nations as a model of what we should do is not the answer, and America never got where it has gotten by following the practices of failed institutions that came before.



Loborojo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,242
Location: Negombo

13 Sep 2009, 10:25 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Well, that was certainly a BIASED viewpoint. Wasn't it?

Your professor friend has one thing right...the dilution of education. Rather than people hungry to get educated and be successful, college has been promoted as a "get there fast" scheme because 40-50 years ago those who went to college made big money upon graduation.

Honey, that is ancient history. Colleges are everywhere, most anyone can go, and there are so many college graduates in the labor market that the paper is hardly marketable. With ever rising college costs and the contraction of the job market, schools are DESPERATE to pack bodies into the classroom.

Obama would be loved in any other nation because pretty much the rest of the industrialized nation has gone socialist in its economic policies. America is not a socialist nation. Socialism did not build the quality of life Americans enjoy, and socialism will not preserve it.

Our nation has flaws, but chucking into the failed policies of other nations as a model of what we should do is not the answer, and America never got where it has gotten by following the practices of failed institutions that came before.


she does exactly what what the Soviet Union did and the latter was always ciritcised for it


_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

13 Sep 2009, 10:51 pm

Loborojo wrote:
I don´t think I am entitled to give away his location.

Fair enough. Can you give me a general feel of the university? Party school? Big state university? Small liberal arts university?


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

13 Sep 2009, 11:08 pm

Orwell wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I don´t think I am entitled to give away his location.

Fair enough. Can you give me a general feel of the university? Party school? Big state university? Small liberal arts university?


Fascinating that math professors are automatically excluded from having valid social perceptions. Any other prejudices we should be aware of?



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

13 Sep 2009, 11:56 pm

Sand wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I don´t think I am entitled to give away his location.

Fair enough. Can you give me a general feel of the university? Party school? Big state university? Small liberal arts university?


Fascinating that math professors are automatically excluded from having valid social perceptions. Any other prejudices we should be aware of?


I think the point was more that if someone says that a professor is saying something about a social issue...it's implied that the professor is a professor in a related field of study.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

14 Sep 2009, 12:58 am

If my barber is so wise about politics, why doesnt he run for office? And have you seen my prime ministers hair do?
Image

The point is, everyone can have an opinion, but if I want expert informed advise, I listen to an expert. If I want to know about math, I'll go see that professor.

Sand, are you suggesting I take investment advice from my neighbour who is an electrician?

Making conversation is one thing, but bona fide experts and public personalities have a certain amount of credibility, so they shouldnt promulgate overly on things outside their speciality. Filthy rich actors preaching about third world poverty comes to mind.

Want a good clear example? A general practitioner doctor holding forth on cancer treatment.

And yet that G.P. likely knows more about cancer than that mathematics professor will ever know about say, engineering, or social issues.

Its a fact that the more you specialize in a field, the less you study things outside that field.

After all, what does the average preacher know about biology? Yet you suggest that he can form an effective and enlightened opinion from his knowledge base.


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

14 Sep 2009, 1:42 am

Fuzzy wrote:
If my barber is so wise about politics, why doesnt he run for office? And have you seen my prime ministers hair do?
Image

The point is, everyone can have an opinion, but if I want expert informed advise, I listen to an expert. If I want to know about math, I'll go see that professor.

Sand, are you suggesting I take investment advice from my neighbour who is an electrician?

Making conversation is one thing, but bona fide experts and public personalities have a certain amount of credibility, so they shouldnt promulgate overly on things outside their speciality. Filthy rich actors preaching about third world poverty comes to mind.

Want a good clear example? A general practitioner doctor holding forth on cancer treatment.

And yet that G.P. likely knows more about cancer than that mathematics professor will ever know about say, engineering, or social issues.

Its a fact that the more you specialize in a field, the less you study things outside that field.

After all, what does the average preacher know about biology? Yet you suggest that he can form an effective and enlightened opinion from his knowledge base.


An opinion about an uncomfortable and undesirable social situation does not require a PhD in sociology. We are all aware of what is socially acceptable and what might be a bad situation. Who knows? perhaps your barber is adept at analyzing the ups
and downs of Wall street. Looking at the current financial condition of the USA all those university educated financial experts working there still can't tell their anus from a hole in the ground and they are still crapping all over the economy. An opinion is an opinion and has to be looked at at face value with some concern over the background of the speaker but that is not absolutely definitive. Experts are very frequently wrong.