Has the average level of intelligence went down?

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Janissy
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26 Sep 2009, 4:30 pm

Callista wrote:
TV can be useful. I personally find it too slow for my ADD tastes; but people who are visual learners can really benefit from the medium. Too bad it's used for inane entertainment--there's something to be said for relaxing for an hour without thinking much, but it's kind of sad that they'd use something with so much potential mainly for things like soap operas, reality shows, and slapstick. Not that there's anything wrong with those; like I said, relaxation is good; but they've completely taken over!

Just once I'd like to see a decent educational program that goes beyond the sixth-grade level. They could do so much with TV that they aren't doing. Imagine using only words to explain what a derivative is, or how a cell copies its genetic material, or how radiocarbon dating works; now imagine using a moving picture, plus those words. Lots clearer, lots more efficient, am I right? But it seems the extent of educational TV nowadays is limited to lion-eats-gazelle nature programs and the at least not-entirely-worthless "look at this cool new technology" special.


Those shows are out there and they are on TV. The Discovery Channel and The National Geographic Channel have some in-depth science programming.



Grace09
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26 Sep 2009, 4:31 pm

bhetti wrote:

also, attention span seems shorter to me in general. TV is training kids not to think or analyze, but to be entertained with fast-moving, shallow stories.


I agree with attention spans being shorter. Too much TV and video games. I also find that people now are all into instant gratification and don't like to wait for anything. The internet has made life so much easier and faster. I remember when I was a kid and had to drag out the big old yellow pages when I needed something. Now everything is so fast and yet not fast enough for many people. The same with cell phones, my kids are 6 and 8, and feel they need a cell phone - I went through my entire childhood without such a thing. I think I am going off-topic so I will stop!



Janissy
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26 Sep 2009, 4:38 pm

Grace09 wrote:
bhetti wrote:

also, attention span seems shorter to me in general. TV is training kids not to think or analyze, but to be entertained with fast-moving, shallow stories.


I agree with attention spans being shorter. Too much TV and video games. I also find that people now are all into instant gratification and don't like to wait for anything. The internet has made life so much easier and faster. I remember when I was a kid and had to drag out the big old yellow pages when I needed something. Now everything is so fast and yet not fast enough for many people. The same with cell phones, my kids are 6 and 8, and feel they need a cell phone - I went through my entire childhood without such a thing. I think I am going off-topic so I will stop!


"Mom, what's a 'yellow pages'???" :wink:



ChangelingGirl
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26 Sep 2009, 4:54 pm

I was going to say the same that Callista already said: IQ as measured by tests rises by about 10 points every generation. I can't remember whether there is any scientific explanation for this though, and am too lazy to look it up in my psych book.



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26 Sep 2009, 4:57 pm

Orwell wrote:
Bozewani wrote:
I feel like as we go on, the average level of intelligence has gone down. Look at today's music, movies and pop culture obsessions.

Look at public policy decisions. Twenty years, America would have never invaded Iraq.

Indeed, intelligence has gone down.

Just under twenty years ago, America did invade Iraq. About fifty years ago, America invaded Vietnam. Pop culture isn't much worse than it ever has been, it's just more visible now because of mass media. Measured intelligence has been steadily increasing (Flynn effect).

Good think I read on before replying to the OP... 'cause that's what I was gonna say!



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26 Sep 2009, 5:06 pm

AlienVisitor wrote:
I don't believe human evolution is on reverse mode.

Heh, we have insufficient evidence on (or depending on how you wanna read the Fermi paradox, anything up to overwhelming evidence against) the value of human-level intelligence as a long-term evolutionary advantage. :wink: Give it another fifty million years and we can start getting cocky about our big brains! :)


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ruveyn
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26 Sep 2009, 5:31 pm

The question should read: Has average intelligence gone down?



Grace09
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26 Sep 2009, 5:53 pm

Ambivalence wrote:
Give it another fifty million years and we can start getting cocky about our big brains! :)


The question is will we make it another 50 million years? It didn't take us so long to start putting holes in the ozone



Tollorin
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26 Sep 2009, 6:09 pm

CanadianRose wrote:
My dear husband is a math teacher.

I took Math 11 in the mid 1990's at the age of 24 (as I had done so dismally in math during my teens in high school and just scraped by with a "pass" in Math 11). After taking it in night school with a wonderful teacher - I got an A + and was in the top three of the class!! !! :D

My dear husband, who I met about 12 years later, told me that the new curriculum is harder now and that (even if I remembered what I learned 12 years ago) I would actually have trouble with the course now.

Also, the kindergarten children have a much higher level of skills and knowledge than 25 years ago. They enter kindergarten already knowing their numbers to 20, their colours often even read (I learned to read in first grade and was on par with my peers in this respect).


ChangelingGirl wrote:
I was going to say the same that Callista already said: IQ as measured by tests rises by about 10 points every generation. I can't remember whether there is any scientific explanation for this though, and am too lazy to look it up in my psych book.


Oh, I feel so dump now. We're aiming for entire generations smarter than me. :(



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26 Sep 2009, 6:16 pm

You're ignoring that older generations make up in experience what they lack in raw puzzle-solving power. It's like the 19 year old college basketball player, just new to the game, peak of physical endurance, compared to the 35 year old pro who's learned all the tricks but doesn't have the sheer strength and speed of the younger guy. Grandma's generation may weigh in below average on modern IQ tests and suck at using computers, but she's also had sixty years of life that we haven't had, and that means we had better listen to her.


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26 Sep 2009, 6:51 pm

polymathpoolplayer wrote:
Read the book "The Bell Curve". It shows that those with the lowest IQs tend to marry earlier and have more kids and have each new generation sooner than the most highly educated


I did read Bell Curve and I think they have a chilling point to make. But I kind of figured most of that out watching a few episodes of COPS. :tongue:



callista wrote:
TV can be useful. I personally find it too slow for my ADD tastes; but people who are visual learners can really benefit from the medium. Too bad it's used for inane entertainment--there's something to be said for relaxing for an hour without thinking much, but it's kind of sad that they'd use something with so much potential mainly for things like soap operas, reality shows, and slapstick. Not that there's anything wrong with those; like I said, relaxation is good; but they've completely taken over!


I don't have a problem with television per se, it's an amazing invention. But I am often dismayed and appalled at the increasingly new lows to which humans manage to put such a potentially wonderful tool. As Edward R Murrow (famous newscaster of old) said:

"This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire, but it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is nothing but lights and wires in a box." – RTNDA Convention Speech, October 15 1958



zer0netgain
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26 Sep 2009, 8:19 pm

Without doubt, people are more "intelligent" in the sense that they are aware of more information.

Frankly, I don't question that as a species we are getting "dumber" in that we have less wisdom as to what to do with that information. In fact, it seems the "information overload" results in people easily missing what's relevant and important on a regular basis.



Grace09
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26 Sep 2009, 9:04 pm

I think as a society we are more educated than in the past. 50 years ago Obama wouldn't have had a chance to run for and win the US presidency, I think that shows some kind of growth in human intellect. 50 years ago, 1959, a woman who chose to work outside the home came across lots of discrimination - and no, even though I remember using the yellow pages I wasn't born then! My grandmother had to work FT because my grandfather developed MS and I've heard all the stories.

Then again, our health is really going down the sewer. Type II diabetes is the #3 killer in the US and it is wholly avoidable, caused by obesity.



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26 Sep 2009, 9:28 pm

That's assuming obesity is avoidable. Even with the huge stigma still associated with being fat and the huge amounts of effort people spend on losing weight, diets still have a 99% five-year failure rate. People lose weight--then they put it right back on. (Two-year success rates are a lot better. It's really in the long term that people tend to gravitate back to their original weights.)

In the lab where I'm working (they let undergrads in if they make puppy eyes and promise to scrub petri dishes), they're studying some knockout mice they've labeled db/db mice--that's to show they're homogeneous for a certain recessive gene. These mice are very overweight, diabetic, and hypertensive--all on the exact same diet the control mice get. For them, obesity is genetic and nearly inevitable.

There are a lot of theories about why people might be naturally inclined to higher weights; but it all boils down to, "Before the free availability of nutritious food, people who could process food efficiently and store energy for the bad times lived longer and had more babies." Now that the environment's changed so suddenly, all that genetic tailoring for famine and malnutrition is coming back and biting us in our (much larger) butts.


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26 Sep 2009, 9:35 pm

Janissy wrote:
The Discovery Channel and The National Geographic Channel have some in-depth science programming.


Have you watched any of these recently Janissy? I'm pretty sure they're both owned by Mr Murdoch these days. All you will see is Alaskan fishermen and medical freaks on Discovery and Nazi gold the Turin shroud and aliens on National Geographic. A shame as they used to be ok.

I don't believe we're getting dumber but I do believe certain entities are trying to narrow our interests so that they can further their own.


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26 Sep 2009, 10:23 pm

Callista wrote:
mice they've labeled db/db mice--that's to show they're homogeneous for a certain recessive gene.

homozygous

Sorry, I couldn't help it.. :oops: