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skafather84
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06 Oct 2009, 9:24 pm

Orwell wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I'm not complaining that Obama has delivered on very little. He's more celebrity than politician, more talk than action. I'm just hoping this makes for some big GOP gains in 2010 and retaking the white house in 2012


Because "more of the same" in large doses again is just what this country needs, right?

When compared to socialism, "the same" is a good thing.

Because Obama's a socialist and wants to abolish private property in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat, right?


:( New page covers up my post.


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Master_Pedant
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23 Oct 2009, 11:11 pm

Orwell wrote:

Quote:
Obama's stimulus program has invested more than any sceptic could ever have hoped in renewable energy and has stopped people struggling to pay their mortgates ending up on the streets.

Because people aren't still unemployed and wondering how to pay their mortgages?


Let's not forget to mention that most Keneysian Economists agree Obama's stimulus was FIVE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS TOO LITTLE. Apparently, appeasing the spitball chucking and paper airplane throwing Republicans was more important than results.



Master_Pedant
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23 Oct 2009, 11:12 pm

Orwell wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I'm not complaining that Obama has delivered on very little. He's more celebrity than politician, more talk than action. I'm just hoping this makes for some big GOP gains in 2010 and retaking the white house in 2012


Because "more of the same" in large doses again is just what this country needs, right?

When compared to socialism, "the same" is a good thing.

Because Obama's a socialist and wants to abolish private property in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat, right?


You have to understand, Orwell, "socialism" has been redefined.

Old meaning: Worker self-managed factories and society.

New meaning: Anything Limbaugh, Hannity, Glenn Beck, or Michael Weiner Savage disapprove of.



Master_Pedant
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23 Oct 2009, 11:21 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I'm not complaining that Obama has delivered on very little. He's more celebrity than politician, more talk than action. I'm just hoping this makes for some big GOP gains in 2010 and retaking the white house in 2012. Part of Obama's failures comes from not realizing he is less like an elected king than he thinks and cannot as easily legislate by decree as he wished. If he spent more than one term in the senate maybe he would have known that a supermajority means nothing when the other senators have their own private agendas.


Quite a misdiagnosis.

Obama's actual problem is that he is funded by financial industry executives with every interest in keeping things the way they are. Actual, he has no problems so much as a lack of committment to progressive legislation.

Obama came into office under the mantel of "bipartisanship". This was simply another way to reestablish Clintonian style "Third Way" centrism, capitulation, and triangulation into America.

As skyfather84 pointed out, Obama has no intention of ending America's involvement in torture - he'll simply outsource it to the more traditional third world terror states, in keeping with tradition.

There is one person - even if he has an oversized ego - who saw this (well, several, but he's one of the prominent ones).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-bC7F7gD4g[/youtube]

This is the stance progressives need to take - lobbying congress.

Ever progressive should be disillusioned with the spinelessness and triangulation from "optimistic" leaders like Obama or JFK (or RJK, if he lived to turn his back on his supporters).



xenon13
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26 Oct 2009, 2:38 am

If the Republicans take back power any time soon, that means the end of the American superpower once and for all. It is impossible to run a powerful country with such an ideology. Breaking the country into the smallest pieces and believing infrastructure to be a luxury is a recipe for disaster.



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26 Oct 2009, 9:12 am

As far as I can tell, the people who expected massive, sudden changes under Obama were in fact the right-wingers (note: not "Republicans" - there are apparently still some sane people in the Republican party, not just the far-right nutbars), who were terrified of the changes they thought they saw coming.

And when those changes failed to materialize, they began to mock Obama for "not doing anything..."

(Kind of like the argument I've been having with one of my less - er -gifted nieces, who after the election claimed that Obama would be engaging in Chicago-style politics, and now is complaining because Obama hasn't in fact used his influence to jump his daughters ahead of others to receive swine-flu vaccinations.)

Two more notes: The Democrats still don't have that semi-mythical "supermajority" (the one that presumes all Democrats will always vote the same way on everything, the way Republicans did under His Majesty George Bush II and his Prime Minister Cheney); Ted Kennedy died while Al Franken was still trying to get the Republican loser for his seat to give up, and Massachusetts law apparently does not allow for an interim appointment.

And the "Obama bailout package" I hear decried so often (the one that gave $700 billion to banks) was in fact conceived and passed under Bush. Obama's main contribution to that has been to hold back some of the money, so only about $500 billion has been spent on it so far, leaving some money for the various stimulus packages. (There was some that was supposed to come to Seattle, WA, about 60 miles from here, for a vital road-building package, but the City Council and the state's governor are still enamored of a concept to replace a crumbling viaduct on an important local highway with a tunnel, dug behind a damaged seawall next to Puget Sound, in a seismically-active area, which is what started the viaduct crumbling in the first place... I have to imagine that there are a fair number of such projects around the country, while the money was supposed to go toward "shovel-ready" projects.)


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26 Oct 2009, 1:22 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
As far as I can tell, the people who expected massive, sudden changes under Obama were in fact the right-wingers (note: not "Republicans" - there are apparently still some sane people in the Republican party, not just the far-right nutbars), who were terrified of the changes they thought they saw coming.

Obama's supporters voted for "change." The landslide victory gave him a mandate to implement real reform, and now. Whether or not we were 100% behind Obama, we were all thrilled when he promised, on his first day in office, to usher in a new era of government transparency and close down the torture camp at Guantanamo. The entire biology department at my university looked forward to increased investment in the natural sciences and valuable medical research. People hoped for equal rights for gays and lesbians, and for a restoration of the civil liberties that had been eroded under the Bush administration. Obama has delivered on none of these so far, despite having a clear mandate from the electorate to implement major reform. He in effect conceded to the losers in the election by insisting on this bipartisanship crap, letting the minority party hold up policy decisions unnecessarily. FDR rammed his legislative agenda through against the wishes of the Republicans, and Clinton once passed a budget without a single Republican vote. Obama needs to decide whether he will act in the interests of the people who elected him, or the people who opposed him.

Quote:
Two more notes: The Democrats still don't have that semi-mythical "supermajority" (the one that presumes all Democrats will always vote the same way on everything, the way Republicans did under His Majesty George Bush II and his Prime Minister Cheney); Ted Kennedy died while Al Franken was still trying to get the Republican loser for his seat to give up, and Massachusetts law apparently does not allow for an interim appointment.

The Democrats control both houses of Congress. They should be able to pass some meaningful legislation.

Quote:
And the "Obama bailout package" I hear decried so often (the one that gave $700 billion to banks) was in fact conceived and passed under Bush.

It always amuses me when Bush worshippers criticize Obama's bailouts- all they are is a continuation of Bush policy. Again, no real change.


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DeaconBlues
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26 Oct 2009, 3:21 pm

Orwell wrote:
The Democrats control both houses of Congress. They should be able to pass some meaningful legislation.

In the wise words of that great philosopher, Will Rogers, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."


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