All human actions are inherintly motivated by self interest

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Of course there are always going to be negative consequences for actions, but a crime of passion is obviously motivated by self interest. The fact that a person may feel different after doesn't change the motivating factor in the crime.

Self interest doesn't have to be rational or on a conscious level.

How about helping someone without being known or receiving credit for doing it? Simply because they needed help, and you could provide it. Would this be selfless? Or are we arguing that the emotional response to helping someone is a boost and thus it is a selfish act? I'd argue that one's emotions are part of one's self, and thus cannot be considered in determining motivation based on reward.

If anything, the fact a person is capable of of having positive emotional reactions to acts of kindness suggests that humans are inherently designed to do so, on some level. As a species, we are tied to social groups, and as such, might very well have lost the potency of whatever preprogrammed selfishness you find in most biological entities. Doing the actions that are best for oneself does not create a very useful creature within a social setting. Thus, human beings, being social creatures are inclined to be both selfish(because they are biological in the first place) and yet helpful to the group as a whole as well.

However, because we are also rational entities(some of us anyway), we are capable of redefining many of the parameters of our instinctual behavior. Thus, can alter within our consciousness numerous facets of our behavior and motivations. I'd say it's difficult or impossible to claim that all actions are selfish.

no


Not all stimulus requires that that be social acknowledgment for there to be a chemical reward. In fact in the case where acknowledgment is required the acknowledgment is the primarily stimulus not the act itself. This is what distinguishes philanthropist, from those who donate in private.

Reactions aren't necessarily either, it they are ingrained, but these are not conscious actions Reactions can be the result of natural conditioning, however that conditioning can also change what stimulates the brain too.

You are saying things that aren't true:

Self interest:
regard for one's own interest or advantage, esp. with disregard for others.

Regard:
to take into account; consider.

Consider:
to think carefully about, esp. in order to make a decision.

If you are not conscious of self interest you are, by definition, not self interested.

I'm not one to take vague dictionary definitions that you could have got anywhere. I'm not going to fall into a semantic argument.

The two words explain themselves frankly.

You can get yourself into a behavioural cycle and make yourself unhappy. However the idea of "self" isn't so concrete. There can be short term payoff like the op says. The nature of the stimulus->response relationship might not manifest in a way that can be perceived on a conscious level.

With regard to the conscious level, this can be one of the most illogical levels. It is where we have illogical thought patterns and so forth.

The idea that humans are universally and consistently logical is a myth, and illogical.

Logic is merely a tool we use sometimes.

I'm not positive what your point is here. Are you clarifying thought out action vs reflexive reactions?

True, we'd be at war all the time and people would fall for dumb ideas like "manifest destiny" because everyone knows that we're better than everyone else and "we" should rule ("we" being a handful of rich dudes who pretend to be our friends but never share) and the strong would be constantly exploiting the weak and the bankers would be constantly robbing the country and our soldiers would be running amok around the globe, plundering and pillaging the weaker countries and committing genocide and the major corporations would be controlling the media so no one knew what was really going on and we would have drug cartels ruling everywhere and... wait a minute... I think I've seen a world like that somewhere...

But seriously, I do believe that decent people exist. I like to think that maybe as much as half of us have at least some internal, objective sense of right and wrong. Unfortunately, they almost never get into positions of power. Selfish people are more driven.

I help people in quiet, subtle ways, often without their knowledge. It's not much of a gift if they have to grovel for it. I don't always feel good about helping people. Sometimes it's just right. Sometimes I'm punished for it. I do it anyway.

As for the guy taking the bullet for a friend, I don't believe there's time to think like that. I think it's exactly what it looks like -- a simple, selfless act.

Theres nothing wrong with doing taht that serves your interst, especially if it also helps others

Yep, that's pure theism. No economic exploitation for its own sake in there at all.

The basic premise is nonfalsifiable, and thus meaningless. Any action can be construed as being in the actor's self-interest, no matter how "selfless" it may seem from any other point of view. Even the sacrifice of Jesus in the Bible, trading his own physical suffering to redeem the souls of humanity, could be seen, from this perspective, as God being self-congratulatory.

Since any action can be interpreted in this philosophy as self-interested, it is not possible for anyone to act outside their own interests. The reasoning is circular, and the premise cannot be falsified (you can't say "what if it weren't true?", because part of the basic premise is that it is always true, no matter how you have to twist the justification to make it fit).

It might be difficult to say that one can imagine many acts, if any at all, that are completely removed. Its probably a far better reason for us to stop calling self-interest a dirty word. Its needless and draconian self-flatulating at that point.

Justification is logic. The truth or supposed truth of the underlying premises could be factual or could be "received" truth which is a social matter.

ruveyn