Disarm Israel?

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That includes Christian fanatics, Islamic fanatics, Jewish fanatics, racist fanatics, and the ilk then, ruevyn. It is not specific to any one type of fanaticism.


M.

It would be an interesting study to see what type of fanaticism leads to violence more often.

Now that -would- be interesting. Would you do it on a contemporary basis, or using historical information? Curious, as the Crusades and Inquisition would need to be considered as well, among other events, if you did a historical examination.


M.

Crusades had two sides fighting, not just Europe. But anyhow, since it would be considering the overall moral effects of an ideology, I think it should be on an historical basis. However, have proper segmentation, compare Shi'ite and Sunni, compare Catholic and Protestant, etc. Another thing to consider is the Christian idea of a "just war" versus the Islamic idea of "jihad".

Absolutely. One also has to consider tribal conflicts between Native peoples and cultures on every continent as a smaller-scale comparative. Quite a keen idea, Mr. Notkeet.


M.

UN-natural topic

Every nation has the right to protect itself, or be protected, from harm.

A nation like Israel is on alert 24-7.

Disarming any nation now is unrealistic.

What can change is the world's foremost technological power in military matters striving to steepen the extremely unnatural and destabilising balance of power... if Israel cannot be disarmed, then its rivals need to be armed, and with WMD also... with nukes also. Make the Israelis see time working against them in ways other than demographically... they will moderate themselves and actually consider integrating themselves with the region instead of making itself like Apartheid South Africa was fighting two wars on its borders, killing a couple of million people in the 1980s... that was after fascist Portugal was overthrown and it abandoned its colonies on South Africa's borders, and the fall of Rhodesia five years later.

South Africa abandoned Apartheid because it lost a war... it was defeated in Angola in the summer of 1988. Fidel Castro and the Cubans are to thank for that. The same thing it would seem would be required for Israel to come to its senses.

I sincerely doubt Israel will "come to its senses". There are doubtless fanatics amongst the Muslim nations and the holocaust was a lesson burnt deeply into the conscience of both the Israelis and the Jewish diaspora and it is a psychological lever to the policies of the west that the Israelis use at every opportunity. Israel apparently sees the strength of its military as the basic bastion against annihilation and the concept of disarming Israel is a fantasy. It is unfortunate because there are reasonable elements on both sides but as to their effectiveness there is great doubt.

the Christian idea of a "just war" versus the Islamic idea of "jihad".[/quote]

Peaches and pears.
To its credit the church may have laid out rules for a 'just war" but thats not the equivalent of a "jihad".

The rules were for run-of-the mill ordinary wars against your christian neighbors.

The christian equivalent of Jihad is "Crusade"- a holy war against infidels. Both are equivalent to the ancient Hebrew concept of "Herrem" (holy war).

All three faiths tended abondon rules when it came to defending the faith in holy wars with about the same herendous results.

How do you know that?
And if that was to happen it was because of what Israel did to its neighbors(blowback).

Israel needs to say sorry and pay for all the damage they have done.
Return stolen land to the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, the support has a root and this is religious bigotry and this is unlikely to happen.
The "Chosen People syndrome" is a serious virus.

Israel depend on the US. They need the extra billions to support their expansion.

Israel should not be disarmed but dismantled, as well as all the coercive governments of the world.
Force over reason should be a thing of the past already... We're getting there someday anyway.

That could end with institutionalized religion.
Very dangerous for those who use it to keep the people stupid and scared,

Would be awesome though.

Whatever the proclaimed religious beliefs of Israeli Jews the official policies are basically racial. A Jew can be accepted as genuine through female descent. No doubt there are agnostic and atheist Israelis who nevertheless claim Jewishness through birth. See http://www.counterpunch.org/mink12082009.html. There are regular proclamations of Israeli fear of intermarriage of Jews with Arabs or any other but Jewish partners to forestall "dilution" of basic Jewishness. There is clear evidence that Israel is a racist nation.

Last edited by Sand on 09 Dec 2009, 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Disarm Russia. Disarm India. Disarm China. Disarm Korea. Disarm Romania. Disarm Oceania. Disarm Lithuania. Disarm Latvia.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPof7CjgIw[/youtube]

The Israeli elite should realise that they live in a certain neighbourhood and should strive for integration in that neighbourhood. Instead, it clings on to a policy like that of Apartheid South Africa as some self-proclaimed outpost of civilisation that has to kill savages all the time... Blame for this policy rests with those who have spent decades arming it with the latest weapons.

By the way, do you know that Israel uses its "expertise" to kill "savages" in Central America also. They were responsible for Rios Montt's reign of Christian fundamentalist terror in the early 1980s... they still are up to their old tricks, helping the coup plotters in Honduras.

Remember what happened the day the state of Israel was declared? Before they had done anything to their neighbors? Yeah. You're just flat wrong here. Anti-semitism is rampant among Muslims, even among many self-proclaimed moderates. And there is a lot of hatred towards Israel in particular. If they did not defend themselves, they would be slaughtered.


Frankly, that's just not gonna happen. Making one side admit blame for all problems is both unfair from a factual perspective and doomed to failure as policy (see war guilt clause in the Treaty of Versailles). Much (though certainly not all) of the damage Israel did was in response to aggression against them. They did return very large chunks of conquered territory to their defeated enemies, something which is virtually unprecedented in international relations. Normally, if you conquer territory in a war, you keep that territory as the spoils of war. Israel didn't do this.


The land "stolen" from Palestinians is often disputed- both sides have claims on the land, and it is unclear whose claim is more legitimate. It's a bit stickier than just "return all the stolen land" because it's debated exactly what land is stolen and what land is legitimately Israel's.

I am strongly of the opinion that an armed society is a polite society.

I only support disarming a nation that has proven itself to be a threat to its neighbors via acts of aggression when there has been no provocation from their neighbors.

This is not the case with Israel. From the day it was created, it has been attacked and threatened by many of the surrounding nations, and it has a sovereign right to defend itself from those threats.

I don't support everything that Israel does as correct, nor do I think Israel has acted wisely in all matters, but until you can make Israel's neighbors learn to live in peace, blaming Israel for the problem is rather ignorant.