"Free Speech Zones" In The USA?!

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If we countinue to let these bucko (Obana and the liberal party) run the country, the US will be socolist just like England. We'd probably even go comunist too if they get their way.

Aaah yes! All those communists who are in control of Wall Street are eager to see the demise of capitalism.

Oh good dog. You certainly have been fed a line. Canada, UK and Australia(just for examples) have long embraced more social programs than the US and in 100 years have never teetered upon the brink of the demon communism.

And the fact that you worry that such a position could be chosen over your preferred system indicates a lack of faith in the viability of the society developed by your elders.

Want it a little more simply? Your fear is an indicator that you think that rampant and proven capitalism is weak. You think that your countrymen are unqualified to choose correct paths in life; that only the leadership may do that, and you dont trust your leadership.

Your position, so simply stated, puts truth to the idea that your community leadership(parents, law enforcement and religious heads) are guiding your generation to be uninformed, under confident, docile, and full of fear of boogymen.

I've even met young Americans that think that Germans are (still!) all Nazis.

Be aware that communism failed. The USSR is no more, now its only Russia. If you even know the difference? Even China has jumped into the mass production/consumer-goods-for-everyone game.

Where in America are the free hospitals provided by the religious right? Jerry Falwell said "Give me 8 million dollars or god will call me home!". Well, you did, and what became of that money? Does anyone but Jerry? Do you know how many heart transplants that would have paid for? How many college educations it would have provided? Do you know how many police officers it would have hired? But you gave it to HIM, and now its gone.

And then they tell you not to trust the left, that the left will steal your money and waste it. What happened to America being about Americans helping Americans? What about everyone chipping in and building a better country? Why do you listen to the people that are already stealing from you?

Throw off the mantle of your fears and start to LIVE. Embrace freedom. Do whats right, not what the right says 'DO'.

Of course they are, but it seems not to you because you confuse Capitalism with Corporatism.
State control of the means of production is what the corporate govt of the US wants, this is no secret, look at their moves throughout the years, how they have been growing, how they been increasing taxation and regulation... And what has it caused? Absolute corruption.
And then you people blame Capitalism? Come onnnnnnnn

Please inform yourself on the rate of taxation for corporate profits. It has markedly decreased since the end of WWII and the general welfare has consequently suffered enormously. To accuse the corporations of communism indicates rather clearly that you have no concept of the nature of communism at all.

Thank goodness free-speech loving Pinochet stoped the free-speech hating socialists in Chile!

He permited the widest spectrum of dissent imaginable!

@PunkyKat: I disagree with Obama's policy on the Second Amendment, but I have yet to hear anything about him doing anything against the First. At any rate, he seems more determined to preserve our rights in general than his predecessor. Remember the constitutional rights travesty that was the PATRIOT Act? It could have easily opened the door to making America a police state. I believe it would have if Bush had done a better job keeping his party in Congress, but thank goodness he was a bumbling idiot.

@OP: I agree that having the government regulate when and where you can protest is definitely in the wrong. However, there are certain places where having a huge protest would be detrimental to commerce... say, if someone blockaded a city street. Rather than having rules telling you where you CAN protest I believe that there should be rules saying where you CANNOT protest because it is harmful to commerce, public safety, etc., but only if such factors can be proven before a justice of the law. That way, the areas where protests could disrupt the order of things are off limits, but every place else is fair game.

I would also like to comment that not all Free Speech Zones are out-of-the-way. I go to school at the University of Wyoming, and we have this giant field called Prexy's Pasture smack in the middle of the academic district of the campus. It's nearly impossible to avoid if you are taking the most direct route to your class, making it a high traffic area... and almost all of it is a designated Free Speech Zone. Remember too that not only do lots of people see things here, but most of those people are easily impressionable college students.

This is the definition of socialism:
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.

Is this what you mean?

Now here is something I agree with.

Corporations not getting taxed as much does not mean that the market is becoming freer. Corporations are not the only ones who own a private enterprise, corporations are not the only ones being taxed.
Some corporations get subsidized and get govt contracts/and other benefits, they wouldn't mind paying a little tax.

Corporations and the State merge as one in an attempt to control the means of production, so they can redistribute wealth according to their morals, just like communists would do, just that their morals do not tell them to redistribute it to the workers, so maybe you don't want to call that communism, but it does have the similarity when it comes to the control of the industries and workers, something that interferes with the law of diminishing returns and it is something that requires brute force(communism requires absolute flawless compliance or violence).

Have you heard of "Serco", this is a perfect example for corporatism-fascism(a revolving cycle).
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj_I9P14Tqs[/youtube]


And BTW, what did you mean by "welfare suffering enormously"?
Less money to spend or less people in it?

Last edited by ASPER on 10 Jan 2010, 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

There is a huge tendency to confuse communism with Stalinism. There is no resemblance.

But in a communist state, could I be a capitalist? Open up a company and employ people?
What if others see this as productive and consider opening up their companies? Could they do the same?

You know very well the communist institutions, the supporters of the ideology, will initiate violence against these private citizens, because if they don't, they themselves know very well that the nature of capitalism allows for private individuals(not just the factory owner) to accumulate wealth at a higher rate resulting in a higher standard of living, causing people to move from the communist system to the capitalist.
Now, when the State gets involved, capitalism morphs into corporatism as the State grants benefits and immunity to certain capitalist companies over others, these become "corporations".

I'm repeating myself I know. I just want to stress the fact that it is the State and not a free market which causes economic instability

You mean like the free market operations of the financial sector freed from the government supervision of the Glass–Steagall Act which just recently created our latest major recession?

The government supervising with the Glass-Steagall Act, or any law for that matter?
The same government that bailed them out, nationalized the debt of the ones who failed and now the US citizen is paying it?
That same government?
Is naive to think that such an institution, which its very nature allows to be infiltrated and lobbied for laws AND under an administration like Obama's, the guy who got millions given by the banks for his presidential campaign, or the administrations of Bush and Clinton or any part of the prostituted US govt system, was going to do something to stop a crisis that resulted to be highly profitable.

FED/State housing subsidies kept the housing industry standing, it should have failed long time before 2007. All their easy credit(FED's/banks' credit) made it possible for oversupply to occur in house industry and allowed sub-prime mortgage lending, causing the bubble to burst and leaving a debt that was later swallowed by the State.


In a free market, these "inept"(corrupt, they aren't inept, as a little research can show you the connections on how this was all artificial, a fiasco, the banks are part of the State apparatus) companies should, firstly, not have gotten that big and powerful. They were State sponsored and/or subsidized and worked with the FED very closely, this is what created they growth over other smaller banks/insurance agencies. Secondly, when it was time to fail they should have failed, one by one, leaving space for newcomers, more responsible and fair, to work in their area of the market, with different policies that if they work, they stay.
(What's the risk these people take if they have the State as a dropback? They will continue to be corrupt. The same corrupt people are free, rich and have their system running like nothing happened).


To anyone that reads this, I encourage to close down bank accounts in the big banks and open up an account at a local/community bank.