ACORN pimp arrested

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The charge is something along the lines of "entering federal property under false pretenses with the intent of committing a felony" - so if they were there to interfere with the telephones in any way then they're guilty. It doesn't have to be a matter of wiretapping. The right wing is using the "it wasn't wiretapping" line to say "If it wasn't wiretapping, he must be not guilty. And if they continue to insist on charging him, then it's a Conspiracy."

That the Republicans want to stop people from voting is well-known. Many of them want to go back to the days of poll taxes. Anyone who claims otherwise is refusing to face facts. O'Keefe confessed during the ACORN brouhaha that his motive was to punish ACORN for having mobilised the voters that he thought brought Obama into the presidency, which to him was a great evil that required punishment. He would have preferred that those people not vote, as do most of the Republicans.

The right wing noise machine intimidated potential ACORN supporters during the ACORN lynching party and it's trying to intimidate the prosecutors in the O'Keefe case. Obama has shown himself to be intimidated by these people.

I'd love too especially if the alternative was American prison.

How many guys got waterboarded again btw? like 3 or 4? Out of what? The 800 inmates that have gone through there?



Ummm, up until 2 weeks ago the democrats had a 60 vote filibuster proof super-majority in the senate and and even bigger majority in the house. So that excuse does not fly. The progressives overread their mandate in 2008 and the American public is rising up against them and the moderate Democrats are running for the hills as evidence of the Scott Brown victory and the moderates all to eagerly bringing the process to a halt.

What felony are they "intent on committing"? That's never been explained. That'll be knocked down if not completely thrown out, I guarantee that. Maybe O'Keefe overstepped his bounds but a criminal? Please. Investigative journalists do this stuff all the time, the only difference is that O'Keefe is a conservative and this was federal office. You can't deny that the left-wing media, particularly MSNBC and the New York Times have lied about this case for ideological reason. O'Keefe says he might have to bring legal action against them, I'd say he'd have a case.

We have in Jacoby a pure ideologue - actually, more of a robotic partisan of Fox. It'll be hard to penetrate the insularity of his tribalistic loyalty to conservative organizations, what without a man of such superior intellect as Orwell even succedding. But I shall try.

From 2002 - admist the Bush years.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1766037.stm

If each person was waterboarded over 100 times, then 3 or 4 people would be a scandal. We don't know, though, the precise number waterboarded.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/20detain.html





Obama compromised excessively with Republicans. Did he start out from a position of a single-payer healthcare and compromise down to a public option? No. He gave the most conservative of Democrats control over the bill (and Conservative Democrats would've joined the Republicans in a filibuster), didn't even consider recounciliation, and let an option most Americans support go by the wayside.

They didn't overextend - the Centrecrats simply offered no solutions to the problems or failed at implementing solutions. Donations from Wallstreet and HMO Robber Barons held more sway over the Centrecrats than did financial and healthcare reform. Republican moaning ensured that the at least $500 million too little.

With little done from lethargic establishmentarians, of course people are going to seek outside remedies. And since COINTEL PRO neutralized any vestiges of progressive populism, all populism is comming from the right.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7u-Wk1aU-E[/youtube]

Multiply by 100

Imagine in a war zone or the hostile environment of an enemy prison.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOStoGd5GZw[/youtube]

In a real life situation at Gitmo, do you think Mancow would be preped for this? Would he be given liberty to arrogantly tell the waterboarder to adjust his grip on the nose? Would he be free to move and unrestrained? Of course not.

O'Keefe admitted that ACORN's crime was getting what he considered to be left-wing politicians elected by helping get poor people and minorities to vote. Now, the right wing noise machine tried to discredit that line by attacking the Washington Post for stating this fact, then proceeding to his quote, and saying that it was dishonest because they supposedly put words in his mouth saying that he didn't like seeing black people vote. However, just take his actual words and he doesn't have to say that, he means it. Check out what is quoted.

"Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization," O'Keefe told The Washington Post. "No one was holding this organization accountable."

First things is that he says that politicians are being elected for it, and then he says that it has to be held accountable, which means punished. They must be punished because they're getting people elected. How do they get people elected? They do so by helping sign up poor people and minorities. The presence of these people at the polls sways the election and puts bad people in power. These people therefore must be kept away from the polls at all costs and the organisation responsible must be "held accountable", meaning punished, and voter suppression must be carried out so that the forces of Good, which means right wing candidates, prevail on election day. The man is a racist vote suppressor, he has been exposed as a racist many times, he even showed up at a white power conference. How he is treated as if he had any credibility shows the madness that has warped American society.

lmao. I'm the pure ideologue? How so? Because I'm not a far left wing loon like most of you guys? I like to think of myself as pretty liberal socially.


Okay, they don't do waterboarding Gitmo anymore. What's wrong with it now?

I'm not going to bother looking up all the rec time these guys get, all the religious accommodations, the weight these guys gain since they're all fed so well, or the laptops some inmates receive. Answer this, would you rather be in American prison or Guantanamo Bay?



I think you're the one that's delusional if you think the "clear majority" of Americans support a public option. One, that poll is 7 months old. Two, nearly every other poll since then shows the complete opposite in opinion. Three, nearly every Democrat in the senate that voted for this monstrosity is either down in the polls or vulnerable.(If you lose Massachusetts, maybe it's a sign you overstepped you boundaries just a lil bit)

Up until 2 weeks ago, the Democrats didn't even have to talk to the Republicans let alone consider any of their ideas and yes, they had some. Even our dear leader admitted so at the bizarre Q&A at the Republican retreat. If he's actually serious and wasn't there just for a photo-op, I think that's something he should do every month or so.

The "centrist" democrats in the senate you speak of were all bought off with special sweetheart deals and ended up voting for the bill anyways. Just like the insurance companies, the trial lawyers, and pharmaceutical companies. The only thing that stopped this from becoming law was the American people rising up against it in August and there after. America is a pretty centrist(a lot of folks would say center-right) country and the election of Obama was more of a repudiation of Bush than an actual move to the left.

A December poll showed 59% for the public option. Moreover, support for the health plan in general collapsed as soon as the public option was removed and the Medicare buy in option sacrificed for the stake of Lieberman.

I think you're bending what he's about. ACORN is accused of voter fraud. IE, registering people to vote that are either dead or don't exist. That has nothing to do with voter suppression.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... _care.html

The "ACORN stole the election" conspiracy theory is believed by a large number of Republicans and is again a racist theory not backed up by any evidence. If O'Keefe simply was saying that ACORN should be punished for stealing the election from Obama, that's not much better - and besides, he didn't speak of ACORN stealing the election. So what did ACORN do? It registered people who voted the wrong way, as far as he's concerned.

Karl Rove said that vote fraud would make a perfect wedge issue and Bush ordered that prosecutors get ACORN repeatedly and his attorney general fired those who failed to find anything against ACORN.

Recently, ACORN has even been blamed for the financial collapse - as far as the likes of O'Keefe are concerned, these are anti-American fifth columnists, blacks who by definition hate America, are ruining it and so the whites, the true Americans, must take America back. They are mad because these people there don't think that the age of slavery was a golden age as they do, they're enemies of America predisposed to converting to enemy Islam, and they "have no quarrel with the Viet Cong" ...

The ACORN stole the election claim is a racist claim not backed by evidence and is part of this view that states that blacks are evil fifth columnist America hating traitors in their midst. Why is it that Republicans when polled had a majority either claiming that Obama wants the "terrrorists to win" or aren't sure?

Maybe so, but those registered who were either dead or non-existent, were dead black people or non-existent black people and therefore opposition to ACORN makes you a racist.

There was no electoral fraud. Bush's Attorney General Gonzalez ordered his underlings to go on fishing expeditions against ACORN and when nothing was found, he fired them! This has been investigated again and again and nothing has been found, absolutely nothing. The real sin of ACORN was registering the wrong people to vote. I know in part because I know people who said it themselves, that the "wrong people" put Obama in power. There is a strong belief on the American right that "those who own the country ought to run it", that poor people if they vote will vote to 'steal' from those who have, and they should not. It's particularly strong in the south with its legacy of poll taxes and other means to maintain their stranglehold on power for the benefit of those who own and control.

Well as we've all came to learn, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There have been numerous convictions of it's members for voter fraud but with the way the organization is structured it's pretty much impossible to hold the whole organization accountable. There has been investigations and convictions for voter fraud by it's members in like 14+ states. It's hard to prove it's systematic rather than a few bad apples. They should not be receiving tax payer money regardless.

Just to clarify - when I spoke of Orwell's superior intellect, I meant superior to mine. That is to say, if Orwell (his superior IQ score) couldn't persuade an insular partisan, than I had less of a chance.

Please read the whole sentence. Mid-way through I had a change of mind - you're more of a Tea partisan than ideologue. Ideologues rigidly follow some general principle whereas partisans like yourself are less consistent - the mood swings of a powerful organization are your only principle.

As for "far-left loon", please have a chat with DentArthurDent before you start spewing far left. I may be solidly identify with the beliefs of the international left, but Orwell is one of the most politically idiosyncratic posters I know. If any label could capture his thoughts on politics it would more likely be "Quasi-Kenysian misanthropoic anti-democratic consitutitionalist" than "far-left loon". Interestingly enough, your very use of the phrase indicates where you're getting your talking points from.





One very major difference between the judicial system of the United States is that, in spite of a few imperfections, it doesn't hold people indefinitely without trial! I'd rather be held in a USA prison knowing full well that I would spent x amount of time there (persuming appeals failed, another right Gitmo detainees lack) then spend years in a legal limbo.

And - of course - unlike America's visible Prison-Industrial Complex, the shaddow judicial system of Gitmo is less transparent. Ergo, abuses and injustices comitted in te system aren't visible to would be lawyers ready to address such grievances. It's tremendously difficult for a Gitmo detainee to have his concerns reddressed.

There are - if the secrete testimonies of FBI agents are to be trusted - some instances of abuse going on at Gitmo (during 2004).



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Dec20.html

Abuses like a detainees in a fetal position, chained to hand and phone in a fetal position to the floor without food, water, or a chair - people who had urinated or defecated on themselves, left there for 18-24 hours. You can read all about it here: foia.fbi.gov/guantanamo/detainees.pdf (the above instance coming from "Positive Response 1").

I certainly wouldn't like to be in that situation (especially since Type-I diabetes neccessitates eating more than once in every 24 hours).

And for more Gitmo bad:



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/mil ... 06-18.html




What recent poll are you talking about? Polls showing the Centrecrat's NON-PUBLIC OPTION healthcare reform bills are losing support? Of course they'd be - who wants plain corporate welfare that doesn't take on the insurance industry and its monsterous practices?

Losing a left-progressive stronghold because progressive Democrats are sick and tired of Obama's inaction does not signify overstepping - quite the opposite.



Polls have shown most Americans support the Public Option - not corporate welfare. Left-progressives never supported a corporate welfare cheque to the healhcare industry - with their HMO death panels. Most were more in favour of single-payer, at least as a starting point for negotiations (there, it could be watered down to mere "public option").



http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1753

It should also be noted that the Republicans - for months - had a fact free hell of a time lying and lying about healthcare reform and supposed "death panels". When public healthcare becomes identified with "killing granny" in public consciousness, do you think people are going to support it? Lets not forget that the insurance industry could pump millions more into advertising than groups like the Progressive Change Campaign Committee or Progressive Democrats of America.

I'm really not even Keynesian, I just like provoking Austrians. Misanthropic and anti-democratic are fairly accurate labels, though.

You're probably wasting your time trying to convince Jacoby of anything. He's impervious to reality. It would almost be amusing to see Dent and him in an argument, except I think they would be talking so far past each other that it would quickly become incoherent and/or circular.