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Animosity and Anonymity

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Sand
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07 Mar 2010, 2:51 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
what goes 'round, comes 'round, in ways sometimes unexpected. most folk would just whistle past the graveyard rather than ponder this seriously. meanness doesn't just affect the initial target/victim but spreads and multiplies in countless directions, like the action of marbles in play. the person you insulted might insult his wife or children who in turn insult folk they meet at work or school and it just goes on from there, eventually making its mean way back to the original offender who would have no idea what brought this onto him/herself. it is so much better to make this a virtuous chain instead, by spreading love instead of hate. pay it forwards instead of hating it forwards. just my 2-cents' worth.


Love and hate are rather useless gifts to exchange to unknown persons composed totally of text comments. Analysis and information make far better sense.


We aren't all Lieutenant Commander Data though, and it seems as though malevolence is usually given quite freely and much more frequently than any form of benevolence.


Perhaps, but I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Mar 2010, 2:54 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
what goes 'round, comes 'round, in ways sometimes unexpected. most folk would just whistle past the graveyard rather than ponder this seriously. meanness doesn't just affect the initial target/victim but spreads and multiplies in countless directions, like the action of marbles in play. the person you insulted might insult his wife or children who in turn insult folk they meet at work or school and it just goes on from there, eventually making its mean way back to the original offender who would have no idea what brought this onto him/herself. it is so much better to make this a virtuous chain instead, by spreading love instead of hate. pay it forwards instead of hating it forwards. just my 2-cents' worth.


Love and hate are rather useless gifts to exchange to unknown persons composed totally of text comments. Analysis and information make far better sense.


We aren't all Lieutenant Commander Data though, and it seems as though malevolence is usually given quite freely and much more frequently than any form of benevolence.


Perhaps, but I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


What of the flame wars you've tried to drag me into, including the of mocking my username? Just objective analysis then?



auntblabby
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07 Mar 2010, 2:59 am

Sand wrote:
I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


it is one thing to attack the mechanics of another's opinions, but quite another when "informed opinion" laced with tactlessly cruel language is directed at the other person's mental/psychological qualities and/or their personhood - this would reasonably be viewed by the victim as a personal attack. there is an expression, "don't pee on my leg then tell me it's raining."



Sand
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07 Mar 2010, 3:12 am

auntblabby wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


it is one thing to attack the mechanics of another's opinions, but quite another when "informed opinion" laced with tactlessly cruel language is directed at the other person's mental/psychological qualities and/or their personhood - this would reasonably be viewed by the victim as a personal attack. there is an expression, "don't pee on my leg then tell me it's raining."


This is a rough and tumble site and people set out opinions frequently that are held close to their breast because it supports an emotional point of view that displays very little if any rationality. If somebody can set me straight for holding an unwarranted and ill thought out opinion I am grateful. My psyche is not so fragile it cannot easily dismiss nonsensical vitriol as an insult is only effective from someone I respect. Ideas must be solid to withstand any sort of attack and the tougher the assault they withstand the better the ideas are revealed and confirmed.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Mar 2010, 4:41 am

Sand wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


it is one thing to attack the mechanics of another's opinions, but quite another when "informed opinion" laced with tactlessly cruel language is directed at the other person's mental/psychological qualities and/or their personhood - this would reasonably be viewed by the victim as a personal attack. there is an expression, "don't pee on my leg then tell me it's raining."


This is a rough and tumble site and people set out opinions frequently that are held close to their breast because it supports an emotional point of view that displays very little if any rationality. If somebody can set me straight for holding an unwarranted and ill thought out opinion I am grateful. My psyche is not so fragile it cannot easily dismiss nonsensical vitriol as an insult is only effective from someone I respect. Ideas must be solid to withstand any sort of attack and the tougher the assault they withstand the better the ideas are revealed and confirmed.


Wait, what? The longer a person can hold out under personal attacks the more valid the idea?



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07 Mar 2010, 5:22 am

Sand wrote:
Anonymity on the net is a bit silly unless it is an attempt to prevent retribution. A name is just a name. I always use my own and stand behind what I say but no one here really knows me beyond what I write and all participants are merely bits of texts.


Oh, I think you misunderstand me. What I was talking about here wasn't a shield from retribution but a liberation of the statement from the stater. For example I've been here two years and in those two years I've made enough comments for someone to form a solid opinion of my values, belief system and credibility on various topics, and thus evaluate any statements I make through that prism. In the same way, some people will make certain assumptions about a poster based on their post count, join date, age, or other known information that may or may not actually be relevant to the topic under discussion. In a system using anonymity, anyone evaluating my statements has to take them in a vacuum of sorts in that they don't know anything about me that might color their judgment of my opinion. As I said, there are both pros and cons to this, and sometimes anonymity is more appropriate than others.


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Sand
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07 Mar 2010, 6:09 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


it is one thing to attack the mechanics of another's opinions, but quite another when "informed opinion" laced with tactlessly cruel language is directed at the other person's mental/psychological qualities and/or their personhood - this would reasonably be viewed by the victim as a personal attack. there is an expression, "don't pee on my leg then tell me it's raining."


This is a rough and tumble site and people set out opinions frequently that are held close to their breast because it supports an emotional point of view that displays very little if any rationality. If somebody can set me straight for holding an unwarranted and ill thought out opinion I am grateful. My psyche is not so fragile it cannot easily dismiss nonsensical vitriol as an insult is only effective from someone I respect. Ideas must be solid to withstand any sort of attack and the tougher the assault they withstand the better the ideas are revealed and confirmed.


Wait, what? The longer a person can hold out under personal attacks the more valid the idea?


No, the less a person identifies him/herself with an idea and the more the idea is considered as an independent concept that must withstand battering on its own the better the idea may be.



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07 Mar 2010, 11:33 am

There's a lot of frustrated people in the world. Sometimes I wonder if the internet is some kind of steam release mechanism that enables the crushing force of capitalist globalism to continue unabated. Without it, everyone would have gone mad and smashed everything by now, and reasserted decency in reality, as well as in virtual reality. But then we wouldn't need the virtual reality. This post probably makes no sense at all.



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07 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
it is still amazing, even incredible, how vicious people can get when they feel secure in their anonymity.

"A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self." -Oscar Wilde

I have been wondering about the same thing. Does anonymity reveal inherent nastiness in some that would also come out if those people had the power to do what they wanted without negative consequences for themselves? Or is there something about anonymity that creates a unique temptation, and the comments mean nothing for how vicious those people would be in other situations? I don't know how I could find out.



Sand
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07 Mar 2010, 12:47 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
what goes 'round, comes 'round, in ways sometimes unexpected. most folk would just whistle past the graveyard rather than ponder this seriously. meanness doesn't just affect the initial target/victim but spreads and multiplies in countless directions, like the action of marbles in play. the person you insulted might insult his wife or children who in turn insult folk they meet at work or school and it just goes on from there, eventually making its mean way back to the original offender who would have no idea what brought this onto him/herself. it is so much better to make this a virtuous chain instead, by spreading love instead of hate. pay it forwards instead of hating it forwards. just my 2-cents' worth.


Love and hate are rather useless gifts to exchange to unknown persons composed totally of text comments. Analysis and information make far better sense.


We aren't all Lieutenant Commander Data though, and it seems as though malevolence is usually given quite freely and much more frequently than any form of benevolence.


Perhaps, but I have found that informed opinion is frequently mistaken for personal attack rather than understood as a point of view.


What of the flame wars you've tried to drag me into, including the of mocking my username? Just objective analysis then?


If you can't tell a flame war from a joke you're in sad shape. Why do you take me so seriously? I find so many of your ideas funny I just thought you had a strange sense of humor.



auntblabby
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07 Mar 2010, 9:58 pm

Moog wrote:
There's a lot of frustrated people in the world. Sometimes I wonder if the internet is some kind of steam release mechanism that enables the crushing force of capitalist globalism to continue unabated. Without it, everyone would have gone mad and smashed everything by now, and reasserted decency in reality, as well as in virtual reality. But then we wouldn't need the virtual reality. This post probably makes no sense at all.


it makes perfect sense to me. i will now return to being a steaming purple teapot :)



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07 Mar 2010, 10:07 pm

Gromit wrote:
Does anonymity reveal inherent nastiness in some that would also come out if those people had the power to do what they wanted without negative consequences for themselves? Or is there something about anonymity that creates a unique temptation, and the comments mean nothing for how vicious those people would be in other situations? I don't know how I could find out.


the smarter sociopaths generally try not to get caught doing nasty things to others, so the relative anonymity would be a plus for those types. this said, i believe that folks with no compunction regarding hurting people one way or another [on the web or in other impersonal ways], will be more readily inclined towards doing real harm IRL in-person to another live person, should the opportunity arise.



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07 Mar 2010, 10:11 pm

Moog wrote:
There's a lot of frustrated people in the world. Sometimes I wonder if the internet is some kind of steam release mechanism that enables the crushing force of capitalist globalism to continue unabated. Without it, everyone would have gone mad and smashed everything by now...


Would that be so bad?


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07 Mar 2010, 10:29 pm

Aspies in general are less likely to be swayed by, or to respect, opinions based on emotion; aspies are also more likely to speak their mind regardless of the social consequences. Many of us would rather hear what others honestly think of us - and that's what a lot of the 'harshness' is, just people being honest about what they think, rather than editing for social contex - than live in a happy but deluded bubble.
We decide for ourselves whether their criticism has value; ad-hominem attacks, such as criticisms of a screen name, rarely have value and thus don't need to be paid much attention.



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07 Mar 2010, 11:42 pm

LKL wrote:
Aspies in general are less likely to be swayed by, or to respect, opinions based on emotion; aspies are also more likely to speak their mind regardless of the social consequences. Many of us would rather hear what others honestly think of us - and that's what a lot of the 'harshness' is, just people being honest about what they think, rather than editing for social contex - than live in a happy but deluded bubble.
We decide for ourselves whether their criticism has value; ad-hominem attacks, such as criticisms of a screen name, rarely have value and thus don't need to be paid much attention.


Generalizations are dangerous. I have seen some pretty weird stuff here.



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08 Mar 2010, 12:03 am

LKL wrote:
Aspies in general are less likely to be swayed by, or to respect, opinions based on emotion; aspies are also more likely to speak their mind regardless of the social consequences. Many of us would rather hear what others honestly think of us - and that's what a lot of the 'harshness' is, just people being honest about what they think, rather than editing for social contex - than live in a happy but deluded bubble.

I really like that comment, and I don't know if it is universal, but I personally like it and agree with it in my own case.

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We decide for ourselves whether their criticism has value; ad-hominem attacks, such as criticisms of a screen name, rarely have value and thus don't need to be paid much attention.

So, you are saying that 99% of Sand's comments should be ignored? :P