How essential is the "All-Powerful" Definition of

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Sand
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03 Apr 2010, 7:25 pm

The discussion seems to be ignoring the possibility of a multidimensional god. A film director can look over fixed sequences in film time by operating in a different time dimension and have no problems with thinking.



JetLag
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04 Apr 2010, 8:35 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
So I ask, how important are the four "Omni"s when it comes to definng God?


I think that all God's "omnis" are equally important, and I believe that they each are limited by nothing external to Himself; but within Himself in the Internal, God's "omnis" do not extend to contradicting His own essential nature. In other words, God does not express His attribute of omnipotence, for example, at the expense of His attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence - or at the expense of any of His other attributes.


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richardbenson
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04 Apr 2010, 9:38 pm

dude the bible is FULL of contradictions. google them, you will be amazed


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ValMikeSmith
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05 Apr 2010, 12:59 am

I've said before God is as he is, regardless of what we "believe",
and I am not a member of a religion or church at the moment
being rather objective about all information and whether it is of any
practical use.

I have said a few times before that I believe that the name of God,
translating from Jehovah or YHWH means approximately (since words
apparently do not have universal meaning or there would be one
language spoken throughout the universe across all species)...
His name means I AM WHAT EXISTS as I think he said to the
water age (*) patriarch of his people, which for various reasons
I think includes almost all people as his descendants.

(*)water age is used here only to mean "since Noah's flood".

Logically given:
If God called himself I AM WHAT EXISTS then he defined himself
as existing and atheism must deny existence or redefine it.
If God said let(s) make mankind in his image,
when Adam appeared, does Adam LOOK LIKE GOD?
Is MAN A GOD? WHAT IS A GOD?
Well, there is the existor and the idols.

MAN IS LIKE GOD, Human beings are called Man,
Just as we call big cats lions and tigers and rarely add "and lionesses and tigresses",
so Woman is also like god, but gender may be irrelevant in Heaven(**)
where God and Angels and the afterlife may be.

**Heaven always meant the worlds above. There is more than one,
and objectively combining theory and other metronic (measurable,
a neologism) characteristics of the universe implies that the universe
is something like a sonoluminescent holographic bubble in an infinite
amount of water (which is NOT RARE in the universe). Heaven is air,
where things fly, the vacuum of space, and the unknown into which
the universe is expanding... is it void or full of God?
Gender in heaven: Angels are masculine in name and according to bible,
devilish ones came down to have Nephilim (giants) babies with women.
(like Goliath)
Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven, so what do angels "do"
(besides stand on a pin)? Angels standing on a pin is part of another funny
philosophical folly which asked whether they also fart, or if Jesus pooped, etc.

Human Beings are in the image of God as creative intelligent loving
spirits. Our power to create is not all in our opposable thumbs.

Objectively I think atheism is a rejection of God. Darwin's evolution
takes too long to write the genetic code, and DNA wasn't even known
in Darwin's time. The leading evolutionist now says the universe is
big enough to have evolved extraterrestrials to write the DNA for
life on earth, contradicting his own association of creation with
intelligent design of life, universe, and everything.

People reject God out of ignorance as if the 10 commandments
were such awful laws, when they are 10 puzzle pieces of the law
I admit reversing for modern clarity, as Love yourself, people, and God.
Now this is not for the police or the religions to enforce, any more
than gravity is. It is the way God, and his Godlike-image-creatures
behave naturally without corruption, and upon reading holy books,
one is often offended by seeing that they have "sinned", and the
faithless run and hide from God, like Adam and Eve when they
took the apple from the snake in the tree hid in leaves in the
garden of eden. They never realize that God's born son went
to the death penalty, judged as Man of sin, in innocence,
and it was a pwn hack against the devil snake who thought he
could kill God in the mind of his creatures.

The angels and any extraterrestrial beings have something in
common: They are in Heaven. When I learned about Santa Clause
and Angels and Aliens and Men on the Moon, cognitive dissonance
began until the information could be resolved. The resolution is
that heaven is all that's up.

OMNIPRESENCE: With the ability to visualize alternate universe
dimensionalities, and their hamiltonian path equivalence with
strings (in other words, any number of dimensions can fit into
zero or one dimension), omnipresence is proofed. Imagine
looking on a map of the world. Where are you on the map?
You are everywhere on the map, because it is 2 dimensional,
and you are above all of it, and can see every place on
the map at the same time!


OMNIPOTENT: Omnipotence is well simulated by video game
programmers, and in video games with level editors (creation power),
and in GOD MODE (immortality). Human beings have created
worlds and universes with words, in Virtual Reality, just as GOD
has created the universe "digitally" (an accurate translation,
where the bible says God worked with his fingers, not his hands),
and digital worlds have pixels of minimum quantization (uh...number data).
The fundamental unit of space is named similarly to what I first named
it when I first thought of it: PLANCKSPACETIME, the amount of space
occupied by one photon in one "clock cycle" of the universal clock,
which is running at a high but finite speed. I do not recall the length
of plancktime, but P/S/T must have been the size of initial quantum singularity
at T minus zero of the big bang (which is both biblical and scientific).
The wavelength of the flash of the big bang must have been that
small at T minus zero , Big Bang Time.
One could say that the earth is at the center of the universe because
the matter of the earth would have been here at Big Bang Time along
with the farthest thing seen in the telescope, and the COBE radiation
is either the water firmament (it LOOKS like water waves to me, as
they are mathematically modelled even in videogames) or stretched
out light from Big Bang that was just as much here as earth was, all
together, but we see the universe inside out, and nothing is where
we see it, because everything has moved while its light went from
it to us over "billions of light years". The speed of light is changing!
Expect to be surprised: Other galaxies may just be light from this one
orbiting the black hole in the middle of it. Patterns have been noticed.
Light from the most distant stars has gone around the universe twice
before going into the hubble telescope, and the cosmic foam or the
COBE radiation implies to some scientists a geometric shape of the
universe more like a black and white soccer football than an ordinary
sphere, torus, saddle, or other hypothetical bang-crunch cycle shapes.
God said LET THERE BE LIGHT. Or did he type it? Quantum Mechanics
is all about universe pixels.

OMNISCIENCE: OMNIBUS EX NIHILO DUCENDIS SUFFICIT UNUM was said
by the inventor of Binary, upon seeing the pattern in the Chinese Book
of Changes (I Ching). That was a long time ago. The Latin means:
To create all from nothing, one is sufficient. Zero is nothing, add one,
make one, add one, have two. Adding one repeatedly creates infinity.
Infinity has zero or one dimensions, depending on whether it is a
dot's coordinate or a string of numbers like Pi. Both the string and
Pi can be tapped (spigoted) arbitrarily for information. Both the
digits of counting and digits of pi are orthogonal and not random, just like other
infinitely long numbers. Omniscience is 0.123...00 <== infinity.
That number made by counting forever contains all possible data, which can
be pulled out of no where, and at speeds close to doing a memory
test, using a formula which does prove the prediction of all data.
(One or two equations can store and recall more information than the
universe can hold. Proof of omniscience.)

OMNI means all or everything. God's name and definition is about "everything".

This information does not represent the doctrine of any religion.
-VMS



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Apr 2010, 1:28 am

fidelis wrote:
If god is omniscient, then it doesn't need to act. After the initial speeds and directions of all the particles have been set, god would only have to sit back and enjoy the show. Everything was planned from the start, as in the first moment of creation. It doesn't need to interfere after that. Because this god knows exactly what will happen and has no need to act, it is as good as dead, simply because it no longer thinks.

I tend to agree that everything is predestined and that everything has a precursor, and that there is no free will. Though, one could make an argument that every action has consequences and a lot of strange things likely have to be done to keep things working, as they do. Its not to say that a God would need to intervene, just that if he/she built the world and universe the way it is and have a preference for our frailties they may just as well in their eternal and already-written story have parts sown in for themselves. It could be as simple as them showing up, telling everyone to wear plaid socks on Wednesdays, and if this has some great canceling out effect in a butterfly caused hurricane sort of way, that would be sufficient reason and needless to say - if God/a God exists this is a matter of their creation, they can technically do what they wish with the time line - even if it was all said and done before the big bang, it would just mean that the event was never outside of the tapestry.

Saying that God exists outside of time also may only imply that God exists outside of 'our' time. The concept of a truly monumental Heron play comes to mind, and just like as it would be in that case Heron built the mechanical plays without ever needing to be in them; he had the choice of course for plenty of deus ex machina but having clients and practical wordly manners of financing he had to do a little better. Similarly JRR Tolkien didn't experience days and weeks in the same way that the hobbits, orcs, and elves in his books perhaps might have if they were real.

fidelis wrote:
If there was no speed limit to god's thinking, than god would be omniscient due to its infinite computation abilities. Assuming that god is omnipresent and not omniscient would require their be a speed limit to its thoughts. If we are to assume that it is omnipresent and omniscient, then the above argument comes in.


You might find entanglement an interesting subject, I don't know for certain that protons could entangle across infinity, just that I don't think we know of a distance limit or speed limit for such relationships.