Boycott CA and all those that boycott US laws and interests

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pandabear
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14 May 2010, 9:49 am

You're all completely nuts.

Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 11:12 am

One-Winged-Angel wrote:

Ichinin wrote:

Worldtraveler wrote:

Since CA in boycotting AZ it is time to strike back!

Sorry for not living in the Us, or not watching enough CNN, or even having a TV, but what is behind this dispute?

Arizona recently passed a law that requires the state's police officers to check for proof of legal residency if they have reasonable cause to believe that someone they've legally detained or pulled over is in the country illegally. Some people think this means that every police officer must check every Hispanic person they see for proof of citizenship, so they're boycotting the state.

As for boycotting the entire state of California, I think that's too extreme. But I am in favor of boycotting all the businesses that are participating in the boycott of Arizona products, whether Californian or not.

Nice strawmen.

It critics don't say the Law states all Latinos MUST be checked for legal residency. Critics merely posist that since "reasonable cause" isn't defined, many officers will take that to mean skin-colour.

Empirical evidence tends to validate this notion.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AradppFx4[/youtube]

Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 11:17 am

Michael_Stuart wrote:

Attempting to boycott each other is silly. Rather, create a petition or write to the people involved. Not only do you save yourself a lot of trouble, it's more likely to have an effect.

Boycotts are (partially) responsible for bringing down the Apartheid Regime in South Africa.

Furthermore, opponents of this draconian law are already petitioning.

Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 11:23 am

aloneinacrowd wrote:

Hey I live in California and most of us are not boycotting anything. That's a SFO LA thing and probably not most of them either. I believe in State rights. Az has to deal with the drug lord problems down there it's up to them to decide how to do it. The Feds have had long enough.

It's such ashame the brain (and hence mind) dies at birth. Their is something appealing about the untrue Hindu idea of Karmatic reincarnation. Namely speaking, the idea that you could be reborn as an Arizonan Mexican-American and feel what its like to be arbitrarily on the suspicion that you are some illegal alien drug lord based on reasonable COUGH*racial*COUGH suspicions.

zer0netgain
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14 May 2010, 11:36 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

Furthermore, opponents of this draconian law are already petitioning.

There is nothing draconian about it.

The AZ law is a word-for-word duplication of the existing federal law which is deliberately not being enforced.

Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 11:49 am

The difference, of course, being that the federal law doesn't have sections allowing litigation against those not implementing the law to the fullest aspirations of some citizen with partial information. This, of course, will greatly skyrocket the amount of wrongful arrests and, is, quite simply draconian.

Honestly, how could randomly pulling someone off the street and asking for "their papers" or "birth certificate" not be draconian?

Jacoby
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14 May 2010, 1:30 pm

I've kind of gone back and forth on the law. I don't think it will really help much and don't like the idea of the cops "demanding your papers" however the response to the law has been pretty laughable. The Mexican president Calderon protesting the law is a joke. If you illegally enter Mexico that's felony crime there with couple year prison sentence. Calderon's country is propped up from money sent back from illegals in the US so he has vested interest that nothing is done about illegal immigration. Most countries around the world are way more harsh about illegally entering their countries and you have to carry your "papers" where ever you go.

pandabear
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14 May 2010, 1:33 pm

Why would anyone illegally enter Mexico in the first place?

Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 1:41 pm

pandabear wrote:

Why would anyone illegally enter Mexico in the first place?

From what I understand, a lot of central Americans illegally enter Mexico and then move Northwards to the states.

Jacoby
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14 May 2010, 1:45 pm

Drugs probably, maybe trying to run from the law. Doesn't matter.

1st offense is 2 years in Mexican prison and 2nd offense is 10 years.

Worldtraveler
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14 May 2010, 1:49 pm

Ichinin wrote:

Worldtraveler wrote:

Since CA in boycotting AZ it is time to strike back!

Sorry for not living in the Us, or not watching enough CNN, or even having a TV, but what is behind this dispute?

Feds fail to enforce immigration law
AZ copys it and will enforce it
They start a boycott of AZ for above law.
CA boycotts AZ.
Entire USA boycotts CA for their boycott.

Got it!

lol

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One-Winged-Angel
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14 May 2010, 2:53 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Honestly, how could randomly pulling someone off the street and asking for "their papers" or "birth certificate" not be draconian?

That would be draconian, but it's an untruthful exaggeration of the law. First of all, demanding proof of legal residency is not required or even acceptable unless the person in question has already been detained or pulled over for another offense. Also, any form of ID will do. No one needs to show their birth certificate, just a driver's license or other ID card.

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makuranososhi
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14 May 2010, 2:57 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Furthermore, opponents of this draconian law are already petitioning.

There is nothing draconian about it.

The AZ law is a word-for-word duplication of the existing federal law which is deliberately not being enforced.

First, it is NOT a word-for-word copy. Several passages were altered and expanded, with several struck before passage.

Second, national citizenship is a matter of federal jurisdiction and not state law; if it dealt with state residents instead, then at least the scope would be appropriate.

Third, a law which is inherently discriminatory and flawed cannot be fairly enforced, and there is no way to define what law enforcement is supposed to look for without using terms or criteria which is race-based in nature.

If these are the laws you want, find a way to write them w/o breaking existing laws and the values on which this nation was founded - personal selfishness not being one of those characteristics.

M.

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14 May 2010, 3:08 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

Second, national citizenship is a matter of federal jurisdiction and not state law.

And that is why established criminals that have also been found to be in the country illegally will be transferred into federal custody upon the end of their prison sentence.

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Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 4:26 pm

One-Winged-Angel wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Honestly, how could randomly pulling someone off the street and asking for "their papers" or "birth certificate" not be draconian?

Clarence Dupnik has noted that minor offences will be used as pretexts - tail lights defunct and the mix. The truck-driver case shows that the law is already being egregiously applied.

makuranososhi
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14 May 2010, 4:48 pm

One-Winged-Angel wrote:

makuranososhi wrote:

Second, national citizenship is a matter of federal jurisdiction and not state law.

And that is why established criminals that have also been found to be in the country illegally will be transferred into federal custody upon the end of their prison sentence.

If they are here illegally, that status should trump and they should be deported into legal custody elsewhere. The state should not continue to bear the weight. There are ways to achieve parallels to the goals outlined by others without being bigoted and offensive.

M.

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