Atheists, what do you think about this?

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DentArthurDent
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08 Jul 2010, 6:59 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=istxUVBZD2s&feature=channel[/youtube]

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skafather84
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08 Jul 2010, 9:27 am

saintetienne wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Now, you can say that this is coincidence but that would seem like a real weak argument.

Coincidence is a weak argument and the eclipse is something rare enough for you to be amazed by it. If you've ever actually witnessed one, the whole sun isn't blocked out. The eclipse is far from a perfect form-fit as far as covering the sun goes. It doesn't appear the same size to anyone who can actually view it and even those dumb enough to look directly at it should realize that it's not covering the whole sun.

the moon gets closer and further away so sometimes the sun is completely covered sometimes it's not.

Exactly. It's not a perfect 1:1 100% of the time.

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ruveyn
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08 Jul 2010, 10:25 am

saintetienne wrote:

[

the moon gets closer and further away so sometimes the sun is completely covered sometimes it's not.

The earth is slowing in its rotation due to the friction of the tides. This is causing the moon to recede (conservation of angular momentum). The moon goes an inch further out each year.

ruveyn

jc6chan
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08 Jul 2010, 11:18 am

skafather84 wrote:

saintetienne wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Now, you can say that this is coincidence but that would seem like a real weak argument.

the moon gets closer and further away so sometimes the sun is completely covered sometimes it's not.

Exactly. It's not a perfect 1:1 100% of the time.

Ok, but now I am in a state where I completely do not understand the way athiests think. You try to find every excuse possible to "disprove the existence of God".

jc6chan
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08 Jul 2010, 11:19 am

ruveyn wrote:

The earth is slowing in its rotation due to the friction of the tides. This is causing the moon to recede (conservation of angular momentum). The moon goes an inch further out each year.

ruveyn

This is happening so slowly that throughout human existence, the moon has always appeared to have almost the same size as the sun.

jc6chan
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08 Jul 2010, 11:24 am

greenblue wrote:

Few questions:
Do you believe you have actually falsified evolution, cosmology and geology?
Do you believe you beat the scientific community and atheist philosophers with that "brilliant" analisys?
Do you believe you have proved God's existence ?

Additional question: Do you expect atheists to question their positions with that argument of yours?

Are athiests able to explain this aside from coincidence? The sun and moon have a huge difference in terms of distance from the earth. The range of possibilities that they would appear to be very different in size is vast. Keep in mind that they both don't look like "dots" like the other stars do.

skafather84
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08 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm

jc6chan wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

saintetienne wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Now, you can say that this is coincidence but that would seem like a real weak argument.

the moon gets closer and further away so sometimes the sun is completely covered sometimes it's not.

Exactly. It's not a perfect 1:1 100% of the time.

Ok, but now I am in a state where I completely do not understand the way athiests think. You try to find every excuse possible to "disprove the existence of God".

Not really. Burden of proof rests on those making a claim to something's existence.

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08 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm

double post

Last edited by Janissy on 08 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Janissy
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08 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm

jc6chan wrote:

The moon and the sun appear to be almost the same size when viewed from earth (depends on the orbit of the moon). This makes for a spectacular scene when total eclipse happens.

Now, you can say that this is coincidence but that would seem like a real weak argument. And it seem like "natural selection" will not cut it. Living things would have existed anyway if the sun and moon were seen as different sizes.

It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me nor does it need a religious explanation. It's just that things that are closer to us look bigger than things that are further away. If I hold a pencil up in front of my face, it looks just the same size as a tree that's very far away from me. This isn't a weird coincidence at all. It's how eyes work.

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08 Jul 2010, 12:24 pm

jc6chan wrote:

That just happens to be how a scientific phenomenon looks... I don't see the relation to religion here at all.

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08 Jul 2010, 1:13 pm

Janissy wrote:

It's just that things that are closer to us look bigger than things that are further away. .

Duh! Now what does that have to do with anything we are talking about here?

Janissy wrote:

If I hold a pencil up in front of my face, it looks just the same size as a tree that's very far away from me. This isn't a weird coincidence at all. It's how eyes work.

A pencil doesn't have to appear to be the same size as a tree.

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08 Jul 2010, 1:46 pm

jc6chan wrote:

Janissy wrote:

It's just that things that are closer to us look bigger than things that are further away. .

Duh! Now what does that have to do with anything we are talking about here?

.

If it's "duh!" then why do you want a religious explanation for why they appear the same size when viewed from earth? So the moon appears to block out the sun during an eclipse. So? Why does that need any explanation beyond "things that are closer look larger than things that are farther away"? Are you seriously thinking that this requires a religious explanation because it looks so mystical to have the moon blocking out the sun during an eclipse? Is that really what you are getting at? What am I missing? What exactly is so odd that requires a religious explanation to make sense of it?

Your argument seems to be that the visual similarity in size during an eclipse is proof of God because...because what? It looks so cool and mystical to have the sun blocked out? And if God didn't exist, things that look cool and mystical also wouldn't exist because there would be no need? Honestly. Your argument didn't make any sense.

As skafather pointed out, the moon doesn't actually totally block out the sun during an eclispe. Just enough to look cool and mystical if that is your frame of mind (I added the last bit). Would you not believe in God if the moon appeared far smaller than the sun during an eclipse? It sounds like you believe God made it look that way so that humans would say "ooohhhhhh" and be impressed and religious. That it's all some sort of heavenly special effect for our benefit.

Help me, somebody.

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08 Jul 2010, 2:35 pm

I think Orwell's post:

Orwell wrote:

I don't understand how you imagine the relative perceived sizes of the sun and moon are theologically significant. It seems mildly insane to posit that there is any necessary connection here.

And Dent's Youtube video really get to the heart of the matter.

1) The similarity isn't as miraculous as it seems, as Dent shows, given that there is a lot of variance in moon sizes.

2) There's really no reason to believe that a 1:1 ratio is any more special than any other ratio.

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08 Jul 2010, 3:47 pm

If I hold out my thumb at the sun and close one eye - I can block out the sun. cool---

Ya, I rule.

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ruveyn
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08 Jul 2010, 3:52 pm

jc6chan wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

The earth is slowing in its rotation due to the friction of the tides. This is causing the moon to recede (conservation of angular momentum). The moon goes an inch further out each year.

ruveyn

This is happening so slowly that throughout human existence, the moon has always appeared to have almost the same size as the sun.

Yes, during the time humans have been around. Much earlier we didn't have a moon, we had a Nightmare. The Moon started out just a little further out than Roche's Limit, about 70,000 miles and has receded since. The Earth's day used to be about six or seven hours long, but the tidal friction has slowed it down by a factor of four. Eventually the earth and moon will be in a tidal lock, circling a common center of gravity, face to face. Humans will be long gone by then.

ruveyn

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08 Jul 2010, 3:57 pm

When god made the world he sat down with some paper & pencil to figure it out.

Eclipse in various locations of the earth If = y being the sun and x being the moon and z being the earth and a = distance and b= location anc c being the variable then
y2 x5b-(z-88) + (c4 -a-2) = (a5 + b667 * x 8y) - ( (a/x) / (z* b * .......ah, to hell with it I'll just put'm here.

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