judaism

Post Reply New Topic

@pgd: spot on. one more thing to add, it's ironic how the roman catholics hate jews for "killing jesus" where the romans killed jesus, not the jews. btw- pontius pilate was the fifth Prefect of Judaea. he was not jewish.

imbatshitcrazy wrote (in part)...spot on. one more thing to add, it's ironic how the roman catholics hate jews for "killing jesus" where the romans killed jesus, not the jews. btw- pontius pilate was the fifth Prefect of Judaea. he was not jewish.
---
imbatshitcrazy - In my view, the current Pope of Italy (as well as most previous Popes) belong in jail for systematically promoting hatred of Judaism/the Jews. In the United States today (2010), the gospels read in Catholic Churches are still extremely anti-Jewish in nature - so much so that the Catholic translated gospels read in America should be classified (my view) as Jewish/Judaism hate speech. The non-profit license of the Catholic Churches should be suspended (pending revocation) until the Catholics reword the Catholic gospels to be free of Judaism hatred/Jew hatred. Why this goes on in the USA is beyond my understanding because it implies an intentional blind eye from both Washington, D.C. and the USA Supreme Court. In my view the Catholic English gospels are essentially hate speech and identical in substance to anything ever said against Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and the blacks in the USA.

You're probably aware of this already but the wonderful musical, Fiddler on the Roof (movie), directly addresses this idea that wicked people (falsely) claimed the Jews killed Jesus and that's why the wicked people justify their criminal killing of Jews. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_on_the_Roof_(film)

My personal view is that Roman politicians killed Jesus because they felt that dispatching Jesus would preserve the status quo. It was a political decision to kill Jesus, not a religious one. - pgd

Did we hit a spacetime loop back to the 50s?

I'm not exactly in a region known for its tolerance of others and I've never seen anyone with a problem with Jews.

@pgd: i do my best

@skafather84: im sorry, i meant the pope

Yeah but he was a Hitler youth. You expect all that brainwashing to have gone away? Old people as it is have problems with being racist rather less an actual former nazi.

You didn't realize that the current pope was a Hitler youth? Joseph Ratzinger (aka pope benedict, aka Joey Ratz) was in the group at age 14 in 1941 (and you know how much longer the war went after that...have to wonder if he did any soldier activities).

Benny 16 ist der Panzer Pope. He has a tendency to say jawhol instead of amen and he addresses the Lord as Mein Fuhrer.

ruveyn

@skafather84: i didn't really have any interest to look up the pope.

Always know your enemy.

@skafather84: thanks

I am no fan of the current Pontiff, and I think that there is a great deal that he must answer for, particularly in his involvement with the coverup of priestly misconduct.

But the references to his membership in the Hitler Youth strike me as opportunistic point-scoring, rather than any reasoned criticism of his shortcomings as a religious leader.

If we are going to villify the man, let's do so on the things for which he is truly blameworthy, rather than the things that he can conveniently duck as being things imposed upon him by a dictatorial state.

Opportunistic point-scoring would be me pointing out that the Pontiff during the time of WWII met with and cooperated with Hitler on numerous occasions and it only serves the Catholic history more that they appoint a Nazi after that. You'd think that the Catholic church would rather avoid nazis after that misstep, not install one as their top figurehead (though, the black pope is the real head).

He has yet to show any redeeming qualities. He's says his lines but that's about it. He's helped protect child molesters for years both as bishop then later as pope. His cynical attempts to bring others "back to the fold" are pretty insulting to other denominations. The fact that he's a nazi on top of that just is icing on the scum cake. Though I don't hold the same beliefs now that I did when I was forming my ideas at 14, there's certainly a part of me that is informed by my experiences and groups I associated with then. For me, it was anti-racist, anti-government punks. For Ratz, it was the nazis and viewing homosexuals and Jews as subhuman. It's cute to watch old people claim they're not racist but in action, they normally are* and I have no doubt that a former nazi is the same as every other old person.


*Not all, but it was certainly more accepted back then and informed their thought patterns and mindsets for life.

Eh, have you read their scriptures? Basically they say that the Jews tried to get Jesus captured, that Pontius Pilate knew Jesus was innocent but was forced by the Jews to go forward with his execution, and that he tried to free Jesus, but that the Jews preferred to let a murderer out instead of Jesus. That might not seem plausible enough to you, but really, Christians have taken great lengths to exonerate Pilate and condemn the Jews.

OK, so why didn't Pilate do more to intervene? He "washed his hands" of the matter. What the Jewish response? Matthew 27:25--All the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

The way I read this, Jesus' primary mission was to preach to the Jews. The Jews rejected Him and began the process of putting Him to death. Those Jews who spoke against Jesus accepted the blame for His execution. But it doesn't end there. While they accepted the blame, it was Roman occupation that served as the vehicle by which Jesus was put to death. If Pilate found no fault with Jesus, it was his responsibility to rescue Him. Therefore, the Jews AND the Romans share in the guilt equally.

If you look at this symbolically, the Jews represent the people Jesus was initially sent to, while Rome represents the rest of the world. While Rome served as the vehicle for carrying out a death sentence, it was Rome itself that was used to spread the gospel. Hence the Jews and their future generations cannot be held with the sole responsibility of killing Jesus. The blame also falls on Rome and, by extension, the rest of the world.

Christians will acknowledge that, as sinners, the blood-guilt of Jesus falls not only on those who actually drove the nails into His hands and feet, but us as well having been named as the future generations of the Romans. It's as though we were ALL present at Golgotha and played a part in Jesus' death. And yet Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Thus the forgiveness is not reserved for those who were physically present at His death, but also those believers among us who ARE present spiritually through faith.

Arguing over who is to be blamed for Jesus' death is silly. All sinners are guilty. Let that be enough.

Simple politics. They're an occupying force, Jesus was of no consequence to them and the crowd would rather release a murderer than him. Why cause more problem for his soldiers and possibly lose some of his soldiers in any riots? An occupying control is very tenuous.