Why was Mary needed for the birth of Christ at all?

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Naturally all those Renaissance painters had photos to work with. That's why he German painters made him look German, the Italian painters made him Italian, the Dutch painters made hm look Dutch, etc.

They had lots of Jews to work with. Europeans in the Renaissance knew full well what the stereotypical Jew looked like. They denied that Jesus was was Jewish before He became God.

ruveyn

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It's my understanding that Italian Catholics copied the image of Apollo and made Apollo into Jesus Christ images. The Italian Catholics needed a good looking Jesus Christ to boost collection plate offerings so they simply stole the image of the Greek God/Roman God Apollo and nailed Apollo to a cross of gold, silver, bronze, wood, or marble.

Given a different time, the Italian Catholics may have nailed an image of musician Elvis Presley to the cross if Elvis's image would have generated more collection plate revenues than Apollo.

It's all about religious entertainment and money and ruthless religious dictatorships, not spirituality (my view today - 2010).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanis ... nty_Python)
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previou ... index.html (Battle for the Bible in English)

http://www.beliefnet.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hous ... rtnerships

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Agree. At the same time both Bush, Jr. and Obama have used the White House publicly as pulpits and have directly talked about the idea of non-profit religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hous ... rtnerships

Burn the Koran (Bush, Jr.) - Texas Methodist Christian - Crusader to the middle east
Do not burn the Koran in Florida (Obama) - Religion unknown - Trying to wind down the Bush, Jr. Crusade in Iraq, etc. and to prohibit the burning of Korans in the state of Florida

Bush, Jr. even shut down the Republican White House to go to the funeral of the child crime hiding Pope of Italy. The US flag was lowered at the Bush, Jr. White House and around the country for the death of a known child crime hiding Pope of Rome. Disgusting.

Both Bush, Jr. and Obama have made religions a big thing in their White Houses. Disgusting.

Apollo was the "hunk" God. You know how the Greeks were with handsome young men. The Renaissance was kind of a quasi classical Greek revival so I am not the least bit surprised that the Begotten Son of God would be a Handsome Greek, rather than some hook nosed Jew.

ruveyn

What do you mean by his poop? I didn't say he was perfect at everything. He's perfect by having no sin, but even he said that we would do greater things then he did. Because the media wasn't around then, and he couldn't broadcast his message worldwide or use advance technology like we can.

It means he didnt have to be a funny funny guy. You took umbrage when Sand suggested he had no sense of humor.

In contrast, of course, is the high humor of the Old testament written by Jews which demonstrates God's huge funnybone. It starts with Abraham who God plays this hilarious joke where he persuades Abraham to murder his son to satisfy God's whim and just before the knife strikes he tells Abraham it was just a practical joke and they sit together and have a great laugh. And then there was the thing with poor Job with God and the Devil guffawing over the poor old guy having all these problems with horrific afflictions and when the joke is over after God and the Devil finish they pat poor old Job on the head and tell him it was terrific fun. Nothing like having a funny God.

I feel your confusion. I hope the following helps answer your many questions.

Jehovah or Yahweh God promised righteous King David in 2 Samuel 7:16, “Your house and your kingdom will certainly be steadfast to time indefinite before you; your very throne will become one firmly established to time indefinite.” God also revealed that the Messiah would be born in David’s line.

(Psalms 89:20) I have found David my servant; With my holy oil I have anointed him,

(Psalms 89:26-29) 26 He himself calls out to me, ‘You are my Father, My God and the Rock of my salvation.’ 27 Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth. 28 To time indefinite I shall preserve my loving-kindness toward him, And my covenant will be faithful to him. 29 And I shall certainly set up his seed forever And his throne as the days of heaven.

(Isaiah 11:1) And there must go forth a twig out of the stump of Jes´se; and out of his roots a sprout will be fruitful. (Compare Matthew 1:6)

Mary was of the tribe of Judah and wife of Joseph. Joseph was a direct descendant of King David. Through his adoptive father Joseph Jesus had a legal right to David’s throne, and through his mother, as the “offspring,” “seed,” and “root” of David, he held the natural hereditary right to “the throne of David his father.”

Read Matthew 1:1-16 to see to entire lineage; notice verses 6 and 16.

(Luke 1:32) This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father

(Acts 13:22, 23) 22 And after removing him, he raised up for them David as king, respecting whom he bore witness and said, ‘I have found David the son of Jes´se, a man agreeable to my heart, who will do all the things I desire.’ 23 From the offspring of this [man] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus, (Again compare Matthew 1:6)

(2 Timothy 2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ was raised up from the dead and was of David’s seed, according to the good news I preach

(Revelation 5:5) But one of the elders says to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.” (the Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David is Jesus)

(Revelation 22:16) “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”

Since Mary was a descendant of sinful Adam and Eve Jesus couldn't be born by normal means. He had to remain a perfect human being free of sin. The only way this could be accomplished was for Jehovah God’s Holy Spirit (or his active force) to make his birth possible. Jesus owed his human life to his heavenly Father, not to any man, such as his adoptive father Joseph. (Luke 3:23) As Hebrews 10:5 states, Jehovah God ‘prepared a body for him,’ and Jesus, from conception onward, was truly “undefiled, separated from the sinners.” — Heb 7:26; compare Joh 8:46; 1Pe 2:21, 22.

So the three main points of this reply are this:

1. Jehovah God promised the coming Messiah would be born through the line of King David.
2. Joseph was the descendant of King David.
3. Since Mary and Joseph were imperfect humans, Jehovah God used his Holy Spirit, or active force, to prepare a human body for Jesus and then transfer Jesus’ essence into the body.

And the rest is history.

Last edited by kxmode on 12 Sep 2010, 12:45 am, edited 8 times in total.

God got tired of blowing loads in his hand.

Oh ok. Sorry about that. I misunderstood Sands suggestion.

I think that "It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" had stand-up potential. It doesn't work these days because we've been hearing the same joke now for 2,000 years and are tired of it. But it probably got good laughs when he first said it. I'm not being flip. It probably actually did get laughs.

It depends upon your audience. I doubt rich people would get the joke.