Right to work

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mgran
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06 Nov 2010, 7:13 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

mcg wrote:

If you have a right to work then that means other people have an obligation to provide you with work, even if you can produce nothing of value.

Employers ought to have a right to reduce hours until the employees select a job that they are more willing to actually work at or begin to improve to a proper level of competency within the allotted time provided them. As for me, if given work to do I do it orders of magnitude better than my coworkers after I understand my tasks and responsibilities. If hired at just about any job, I will outperform anyone else at anything. There are certainly people who would abuse any right and any system, but everyone in general should not be punished for the faults of the few.

Ever wondered if maybe your staggering arrogance might be hurting your employment options a little? Do you say that sort of thing in interviews, because I am certain many employers would balk at such a statement. You should at least quantify it. You don't know you can outperform anyone at anything in almost any job. At best you know that you have outperformed some people at the jobs you have held so far.

I enumerate situations in which I have outperformed my coworkers and do not make such a statement outright. Thanks for giving advice I already knew.

It's not staggering arrogance to state a fact. I have the problem of having an embarrassingly high IQ, high qualifications, and not knowing what to do with them. Given the fact that most people are prejudiced I try to pretend I'm not as clever as I am, but I am still often accused or suspected of being "arrogant", when in fact I'm just ahead of most of my "peers".

I wish there was a fundamental right to work... But if I actually describe my qualifications I'm accused of bragging.

It's not fair, and it's not my (or the OP's) fault.

mcg
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06 Nov 2010, 7:20 pm

What field are you in?

Macbeth
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06 Nov 2010, 7:34 pm

mgran wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

mcg wrote:

If you have a right to work then that means other people have an obligation to provide you with work, even if you can produce nothing of value.

I enumerate situations in which I have outperformed my coworkers and do not make such a statement outright. Thanks for giving advice I already knew.

[b]It's not staggering arrogance to state a fact. I have the problem of having an embarrassingly high IQ, high qualifications, and not knowing what to do with them. Given the fact that most people are prejudiced I try to pretend I'm not as clever as I am, but I am still often accused or suspected of being "arrogant", when in fact I'm just ahead of most of my "peers".

I wish there was a fundamental right to work... But if I actually describe my qualifications I'm accused of bragging.

It's not fair, and it's not my (or the OP's) fault.

Having a higher IQ or being more intelligent than your peers is not unusual with AS. Being better at tasks is not unusual either. The problem is that it is also not unusual for people with AS to come across as arrogant and supercilious. Granted, this is not the same medium, but if 'keet talks to his co-employees anything like he talks to people here, then he will be screaming "I am better than you." with every word he speaks.

Its a common problem, but not one that is easily overcome. Like all social skills, there are techniques that can help, and choice of words is one of them. Incidentally, the same techniques usually apply to dating, small talk and most other social interactions.

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Macbeth
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06 Nov 2010, 7:46 pm

mgran wrote:

It's not staggering arrogance to state a fact.

I should say as well that sometimes the MOST arrogant-sounding statement is the one which is simply "stating a fact." It shouldn't be, but that is the way it will be heard. Especially if that "fact" is a statement of superiority.

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Vexcalibur
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07 Nov 2010, 7:52 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

No.

There is no way in hell that would be remotely viable, even in a socialist utopia.

Care to give proof of impossibility?

1) The pigeonhole principle: More people want a job than the job slots available.
2) The fact that there are millions of people who are unemployable.

Oh I guess government could make job positions up that pay even unemployable people, but in reality these people would do nothing at their jobs and it would be the same as if the government was downright giving money away...

Plus people would not care about their jobs (Who cares if I lose my job, the government guarantees one to me anyway)

It would also discourage people from trying and starting entrepreneurs (becoming self-employed and starting new sources of work...)

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LKL
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07 Nov 2010, 2:40 pm

There have to be consequences for bad behavior and for good behavior.

Sand
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07 Nov 2010, 5:59 pm

For the majority of people work is the only way to survive. Do people have a right to survive?

xenon13
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07 Nov 2010, 6:14 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

In this thread, the usage of the words "right to work" are not to refer to the current terminology which refers to an employee's freedom not to be required to join a union. Rather, the usage of the words "right to work" ought to be considered in their more intuitive meaning, namely a right of every citizen to be employed if they so wish. If an amendment to the US constitution were to be made allowing citizens to have a right to be employed, would you be in support of it or oppose it and why?

A law outlawing NAIRU and the maintenance of a Reserve Army of Labour? Why, those right wing ideologues would be outraged - don't we know it's someone's Moral failure that they don't have a job, they say? NAIRU? That's not to be discussed. Reserve Army of Labour? Don't say such things in public!

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07 Nov 2010, 6:16 pm

Sand wrote:

For the majority of people work is the only way to survive. Do people have a right to survive?

They have a duty to survive.

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08 Nov 2010, 4:08 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

"Rights" go hand in hand with "obligations". If you have the "right" to a job or a house or medical care then someone else is obligated to pay for it out of their pocket.

Who is obligated to give you the job that you demand? That can never happen except under a Communist or Fascist government.

Adolph Hitler solved that problem. If you wouldn't get a job then you would be sent to a work camp for a couple of years to learn the error of your ways.

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08 Nov 2010, 4:51 am

Wombat wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Assuming no one is going to or can give jobs to the huge numbers of men and women who have children and who would like to work and earn a living what is the solution to keeping these people alive and occupied? Do you assume they will merely lay back and willingly prepare to die or will something more catastrophic occur?

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08 Nov 2010, 5:28 am

Sand wrote:

I don't know. This is a HUGE problem.
When I was a boy in the 1960's banks and offices were full of people cranking away at adding machines. Now those jobs don't exist.
There were many more jobs for clerks and typists.

When my great grandfather was a boy there were plenty of "pick and shovel" jobs and everything was delivered by horse and wagon.

If you look at South America they have shantytowns where MILLIONS of people live in dire poverty breeding like rabbits.

Are there jobs for those people? No. Will there ever be? No.

Can we afford to feed them? No. But if we don't then they will rise up and riot.

The future looks bleak for all of us.

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08 Nov 2010, 6:30 am

Wombat wrote:

Sand wrote:

Someday, when all the work is being done by robots and automatic machinery somebody in power with half a brain will finally figure out that the system doesn't work anymore and a new system that keeps everybody occupied and fed and housed will have to be devised.

ruveyn
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08 Nov 2010, 6:47 am

mcg wrote:

If you have a right to work then that means other people have an obligation to provide you with work, even if you can produce nothing of value.

This would shake out to the government being the employer of last resort. We would soon all be living in the State of Dole.

ruveyn

Sand
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08 Nov 2010, 8:18 am

ruveyn wrote:

mcg wrote:

If you have a right to work then that means other people have an obligation to provide you with work, even if you can produce nothing of value.

This would shake out to the government being the employer of last resort. We would soon all be living in the State of Dole.

ruveyn

And perhaps the people could take over the government so we would all be self employed..

iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2010, 8:41 am

parrow wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Word are important, you chose your words and you already know why. Your title is right to work, but what you want is right to be employed. You changed the word on purpose to mislead people with the "right to work" when it's not you you want.

And that's because you already have the right to work. You can go do (almost) whatever you want. Go work, build something, and sell it. Go invent something new and sell the idea. Program some software, and sell it. Buy other peoples trash and sell it on ebay. Your opportunities are almost endless, but you have to do it yourself.

You have no right to employment, because employers are people. To force someone to employ you overrides their freedom. You have no more right to force someone to employ you than I have to walk into your house and demand you employ me.

I can work all I want for free, but being paid for my work would just be nice too.

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