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memories, death and the afterlife?

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Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 2:28 am

auntblabby wrote:
Sand wrote:
Reality is bitter medicine but it is healthy.


for me, reality is a hairshirt. it is what i must tolerate in order to get my heavenly reward. if there were no heavenly reward, i would have chucked everything under the bus decades ago.


Although I am currently rock bottom financially poor I am rapidly approaching the end of my life which had many awful events. But my health is relatively good and each day is another day of the gifts of hearing and eyesight, smell and taste, memories of places and things and the great companionship of a planet full of daily wonders. There are other humans undergoing terrible horrors of disease and terror and I am incredibly rich not to have that. Any living and even minimally conscious being who is not delighted merely to be alive and see the Sun and the Moon and to live on a planet that even permits life and denies all this wonder to wait empty minded and cocooned in fear and hatred is only to be pitied for being so abysmally stupid and unaware.



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17 Nov 2010, 6:02 am

Sand wrote:
Although I am currently rock bottom financially poor I am rapidly approaching the end of my life which had many awful events. But my health is relatively good and each day is another day of the gifts of hearing and eyesight, smell and taste, memories of places and things and the great companionship of a planet full of daily wonders. There are other humans undergoing terrible horrors of disease and terror and I am incredibly rich not to have that. Any living and even minimally conscious being who is not delighted merely to be alive and see the Sun and the Moon and to live on a planet that even permits life and denies all this wonder to wait empty minded and cocooned in fear and hatred is only to be pitied for being so abysmally stupid and unaware.


i am not [quite] so abysmally stupid and unaware as to not comprehend the natural charms of the earth and heavens, and to be thankful that these things leaven a mean world which is diabolically efficient at distracting me from such sublime beauty. the world as it is, is very good at making me very afraid, much of the time. i can't help this, it is the way i am constructed and i have found no practical workarounds for my deficits in personal efficacy which keeps me at the mercy of the bullies in my little corner of existence. i would love to have been able to travel but alas, that was not to be. but i am aware that the bereft multitudes on this planet have been much more deprived than me, and i remember to be thankful for this also.



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18 Nov 2010, 8:04 am

zer0netgain wrote:
I doubt you forget anything.

Of course, in heaven, the bad memories wouldn't matter anymore.

In hell, the best memories would fail to give comfort.


that I must say makes a lot of sense, I mean Heaven is (surely) so wonderful that any bad memories would not matter any more as your every wish and whim is granted (as we've all had bad stuff happen to us) and Hell must be so filled with terrors that not even you happy memories (as most people will have them) will not be of any use to you, as you will no nothing but pain for the rest of time.

As we all know God plans to set everything right in the end for us all, as even those who are in Hell, things are being 'set right', abet in a way that they would hate.

Goodbye Till Next Time



waltur
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18 Nov 2010, 12:35 pm

Sand wrote:
Although I am currently rock bottom financially poor I am rapidly approaching the end of my life which had many awful events. But my health is relatively good and each day is another day of the gifts of hearing and eyesight, smell and taste, memories of places and things and the great companionship of a planet full of daily wonders. There are other humans undergoing terrible horrors of disease and terror and I am incredibly rich not to have that. Any living and even minimally conscious being who is not delighted merely to be alive and see the Sun and the Moon and to live on a planet that even permits life and denies all this wonder to wait empty minded and cocooned in fear and hatred is only to be pitied for being so abysmally stupid and unaware.


boosterjones wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I doubt you forget anything.

Of course, in heaven, the bad memories wouldn't matter anymore.

In hell, the best memories would fail to give comfort.


that I must say makes a lot of sense, I mean Heaven is (surely) so wonderful that any bad memories would not matter any more as your every wish and whim is granted (as we've all had bad stuff happen to us) and Hell must be so filled with terrors that not even you happy memories (as most people will have them) will not be of any use to you, as you will no nothing but pain for the rest of time.

As we all know God plans to set everything right in the end for us all, as even those who are in Hell, things are being 'set right', abet in a way that they would hate.

Goodbye Till Next Time




i was going to comment on what an awesome perspective sand portrayed, but holy f***ing sh** how depressing it is to see the difference between the godless mind, enraptured by the beauty observable by conscious matter such as ourselves, and the constant longing for an end to this life espoused by so many waiting for "something better."

how small minded, they see their god. at least auntblabby seems to understand that, if there's any value to the idea of an afterlife, it's as an idea. (though his shakespeare reference made my brain jump to tim minchin's "storm.") what kind of douchebag of a god would design a system as evil as "heaven and hell?"

and sylvia browne is a fraud (it hurts my brain that that needs to be said). if she weren't, she would be a million dollars richer. http://www.randi.org/sylvia/index.shtml the same goes for anyone else trying to make claims like she does.

@sand i'll miss you when you're gone.


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ruveyn
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18 Nov 2010, 3:12 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Sand wrote:
Reality is bitter medicine but it is healthy.


for me, reality is a hairshirt. it is what i must tolerate in order to get my heavenly reward. if there were no heavenly reward, i would have chucked everything under the bus decades ago.


It sucks to be you.

ruveyn



danandlouie
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18 Nov 2010, 3:46 pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

really, human creatures, why argue the unknowable. dan the peacemaker sez, let those who need god to get through their daily life have it.

just don't trash me for not being a believer. fat chance in that. religion ,since the beginning of man, has been used to make one group feel superior to the other poor slobs who inhabit this wonderful planet.

just know this.....when you are dead, for the first few minutes at least, your brain-if it hasn't been physically destroyed- will search for sensory input and make up stuff when it doesn't get any. it can get pretty weird. trust me on that. the problem is, how long does this last. for at least five minutes, i assure you. now, that is scary.

note to WALTUR.......what is your terrific avatar? very dramatic.

actually, it sucks to be me.



Fuzzy
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18 Nov 2010, 5:50 pm

danandlouie wrote:
note to WALTUR.......what is your terrific avatar? very dramatic.


Here it is, larger size, though I dont know what it is.
[img][800:900]http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs45/f/2009/117/e/4/VNV_NATION_Of_Faith__Power____by_Karezoid.jpg[/img]


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auntblabby
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18 Nov 2010, 10:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
It sucks to be you.


it sucks even more to be a cold-bloodedly self-righteous scold with a superiority complex. :P



Sand
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18 Nov 2010, 10:47 pm

auntblabby wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It sucks to be you.


it sucks even more to be a cold-bloodedly self-righteous scold with a superiority complex. :P


I'll second that.



ruveyn
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19 Nov 2010, 7:21 am

auntblabby wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It sucks to be you.


it sucks even more to be a cold-bloodedly self-righteous scold with a superiority complex. :P


How otherwise is a superior cold blooded person supposed to be? Compassion is not my long suite.

If you want justice, I can be of some help to you. If you want unconditional love, get a dog.

ruveyn



Sand
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19 Nov 2010, 8:55 am

ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It sucks to be you.


it sucks even more to be a cold-bloodedly self-righteous scold with a superiority complex. :P


How otherwise is a superior cold blooded person supposed to be? Compassion is not my long suite.

If you want justice, I can be of some help to you. If you want unconditional love, get a dog.

ruveyn


Compassion is a huge element in any decent social relationship. Without it justice is meaningless.



ruveyn
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19 Nov 2010, 10:17 am

Sand wrote:

Compassion is a huge element in any decent social relationship. Without it justice is meaningless.


The other day I discovered that Compassion and $3.67 could get me a medium coffee and one Old Fashioned donut at the local Dunkin' Donut (tm) shop.

Before that, no Compassion and $3.67 would buy me the same thing.

Which tells you exactly what Compassion is worth in the market place.

ruveyn



Sand
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19 Nov 2010, 10:27 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

Compassion is a huge element in any decent social relationship. Without it justice is meaningless.


The other day I discovered that Compassion and $3.67 could get me a medium coffee and one Old Fashioned donut at the local Dunkin' Donut (tm) shop.

Before that, no Compassion and $3.67 would buy me the same thing.

Which tells you exactly what Compassion is worth in the market place.

ruveyn


And, of course, with your mindset the whole legal system is for sale. That's your form of justice.



pgd
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19 Nov 2010, 12:26 pm

ivegotyou wrote:
if you die and go to heaven, do you forget all your bad memories and remember the good ones?
Is it the opposite if you go to hell?


---

John Bunyan, in his book Pilgrim's Progress, addressed what you are asking. Bunyan is quite Biblical although his story is told using the literary device of a dream. The general idea is that heaven is a place full of just women and men and that Jesus, the King, will wipe away all tears from their eyes. My personal view today: No one knows for sure what happens after a person dies. Death is part of the human life cycle for everyone. There are both Jack T. Chick, Christian evangelist, advocates and the opposite: anti-Jack T. Chick, Christian evangelist, advocates. There are people who believe in the ideas/the stories presented in the Bible; there are others who do not.



ruveyn
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19 Nov 2010, 12:30 pm

Sand wrote:

And, of course, with your mindset the whole legal system is for sale. That's your form of justice.


My justice is objective truth in action. That cannot be either bought or sold. What is true and what is right is the stuff of justice, not squirmy social sentimentality.

And that is why our justice system should not be polluted with tyranny or compulsion.

ruveyn



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19 Nov 2010, 1:22 pm

danandlouie wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

really, human creatures, why argue the unknowable. dan the peacemaker sez, let those who need god to get through their daily life have it.

just don't trash me for not being a believer. fat chance in that. religion ,since the beginning of man, has been used to make one group feel superior to the other poor slobs who inhabit this wonderful planet.

just know this.....when you are dead, for the first few minutes at least, your brain-if it hasn't been physically destroyed- will search for sensory input and make up stuff when it doesn't get any. it can get pretty weird. trust me on that. the problem is, how long does this last. for at least five minutes, i assure you. now, that is scary.

note to WALTUR.......what is your terrific avatar? very dramatic.

actually, it sucks to be me.



the image is the album cover for VNV Nation's last album "of Faith, Power, and glory." in an interview, ronan harris was explaining how they came up with the cover and he said "wouldn't it be rather ironic if the last thing that remained of humanity would be a monument to the idiocy of war...
...a rather cruel joking irony of the universe laughing at us, that our only legacy would be the tomb of the unknown soldier." the statue on the cover isn't the tomb of the unknown soldier (unless there's one i don't know about. it's not the one from arlington, is what i mean).

"One of the most frequently asked questions is what the letters VNV stand for. They stand for "Victory not Vengeance". The meaning behind this stylised motto is that one should strive to achieve, not sit in bitter regret."
http://www.vnvnation.com/Webfiles/propaganda.htm

i've been a big vnv fan for a long time. i've had the basic symbol tattooed on my right arm since i saw them while i was in the army. i have a terrible penchant for vengeful thinking and the raised black ink is a constant reminder that it's more important to advance than to outpace others by slowing them down; that winning is great, and all, but tripping your competitor doesn't make you run any faster and doesn't prove you're a better runner.

here's a great track off that album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5euRZqufiqo "tomorrow never comes" is a pretty good song for this thread anyways.

"sentinel" is another awesome track from that album.

and as to why we "argue the unknowable:"

Image


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