What are the possible ramifications of the shooting in AZ?

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To the OP: I find you're "centrist" analysis quite frankly absurd. If the murder of George Tiller of the TIDES shooter doesn't motivate sufficient backlash that motivates Fox to voluntarily tone down their rhetoric, I hardly think another (and, in all honestly, politically ambigous) incident will motivate the Feds to censor one of the most powerful Media Outlets in the United States.

For what it's worth, his current posts seem to indicate that he's a syncretic radical now, not a strictly leftist radical.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... unman.html[/quote]



Like hell there isn't. There's an influx of issues concerning America's mental health system that arise from shootings like this, especially considering the number of mentally disordered people that were thrown out onto the streets by Slick Willie's welfare reforms (I'm not saying this particular case is directly related to 1990s welfare reform, but the larger issue is still relevant as similar people might be roaming the streets, jobless and unstable). Given that the economy is in a shambles and quite a bit of anger is going around, it's very likely more disturbed people will be comming out of the woodworks.

I don't see any political connections here. To me this looks like a case of an undiagnosed unmedicated paranoid schizophrenic who lost it. No doubt there will be an investigation looking into what went wrong.

The only ramification I see is heightened security requirements for future events like this.

Well the spin machine has certainly gone into overdrive, that seems to be the most immediate consequence. I've already been over on Salon.com pointing out some gun related misinformation being spread by the Brady Bunch, but my real fear is for free speech on this one. I'm concerned that we're going to see some sort of bill named after this, and historically bills named after dead or injured people have not been a good thing, since to my mind using emotional blackmail implies that the idea wouldn't have flown under normal circumstances.

Without accounting the results from actual deaths (families and societies losing members): Nothing.

I mean, no ramifications at all. No relevant change to any law. no change in speech from the crazies. And No change in support to either party.


Well, except that the senator may or may not be replaced depending on her condition.


Edit: Well, it occurs to me that both the right and the ultra-right will try to cause some controversy as to distract people from the economy. It will not work.

PM, I don't see how the Tea Party is automatically racist just because they oppose Obama. Perhaps they disagree with his strong radical socialist agenda. Is it racist to diagree with a black man? I agree that in the end Obama will not be in fact as socialist as he says, after all the Democrats including Obama are rich themselves. Why is Tea Party automatically assumed to be rich? Most of the are owners of struggling businesses r small landowners. The Democrats and leftists are just as rich as the Republicans.
I don't trust the Republicans either. Bush wasted money like a socialist Democrat. We just need to keep one party from controlling the Executive and Legislative branches.
Ruveyn noted that there is either Bad government or Worse Government.
If the Tea Party is racist for opposing a back politician should the US be considered racist against the Pashtu because the US fights the Taliban.?

QFT

This is the real issue.

TenFaces, it is cause the left can't win the debate, so they try to make stuff up about their opponents. They are going to try to milk this for all they can to get their agenda through and attempt to silence Conservative voices.

Blame where blame is due: it is Ronald Reagan who closed the institutions, in favor of "community based treatment" that never materialized, leaving the mentally ill reliant on family for help, family which in the case of bipolar and schizo is oftentimes rejected or pushed away by the sick person due to illness. Reagan closed the institutions in California in the 60s, a "reform" which to be fair was continued by his lib successor Jerry Brown. Reagan became president, and started the ball rolling which led to welfare reform as well as the existence of the nutty far right. Reagan claimed that the "free market" would handle treatment, which was nonsense; the vulnerable wound up abused by group home operators for easy profits, or even worse dumped on families or the streets.

Now the monster Reagan begat is demanding the end to ALL government, and on an armed struggle to get there, after which, presumably, actual death camps will be built (instead of the fictional ones imagined by the far right) and all vulnerable people will be shipped there for extermination, just like the Nazis did (the death camps originally held "beggars", WW1 wounded, and the mentally ill). They want to get rid of everybody on this forum, and if not you then your family members. (I'm presuming everybody here is autistic or knows someone who is.)

There is a very real possibility of some event triggering them, and then there will be a rebellion, and after they win it will be like Mad Max with every man for himself, heavily armed, and the absolute right to kill anybody who looks at you funny. I mean, I'm an anarchist myself, but even anarchists have rules. The far right has no rules. They think that the church should be the ultimate institution of society, well we already had that, it was called the Dark Ages. In fact, they would be worse than the Catholic Popes, since anybody at all who gained a following could set up his own army and go riding off to "save" the people over there who follow another guy who did the same thing.

Nice fantasy there.

What I'm curious about is how nobody saw this coming. He was denied at MEPS for some reason and I wonder why.

Improving mental health services needs to be done, but that only works if the person wants help. Trying to force someone to receive help is not only a logistical hassle, but it is also cost prohibitive. Even if we had better funded mental health services someone like the shooter would likely still have slipped through the cracks in the mental health system.

Yeah true you can't force someone to accept treatment. That just has too much potential for tyranny. Like how in Changeling, Christine Collins is declared delusional because the people responsible don't want to admit they f****d up and the boy isn't actually her son.

"One video, which contained a series of text set to music, made reference to revolution and told viewers: "You don't have to accept the federalist laws".

It called for a return to the gold standard, a common demand of Tea Party activists, and claimed that the government was imposing "mind control and brainwash on the people". "

It is clear the individual concerned was motivated by the attitude to the state of the organised US far right. Whether the individual concerned is actual insane for believing that big government poses a physical threat to him is an interesting question. I think alot of americans would be thrown in the nuthouse if that were to happen. Like the poster earlier in this thread who claimed that obama was operating "a radical socialist agenda". A clear delusional statement there.

He was known to be a liberal and his views do not match up with any group. He is not a left wing nut, and he is not a right wing nut. He is just plain nuts.

Again Jamieboy there are people on the left that believe that kind of stuff too. Anyways, a key point to note is Glenn Beck has always spoken against violence saying that the liberals want the Conservatives to be violent cause it would be precisely what the progressives want. He has praised the Tea Party for not being violent, etc.

So if this guy was a Glenn Beck listener, he did precisely what Beck said not to do.

He was opposed to the government because he said they were employing "mind control" to people illiterate and stop them from dreaming. Completely coherent. Stop trying to push your agenda, it's pathetic. You people are excited to blame this on your enemies, you're almost as sick as Jared Loughner.

Last edited by Jacoby on 09 Jan 2011, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I see alot of extreme anti statism in his views. Kind of like a less logical Mcveigh.

Anyhow whats the deal with this co-conspirator that the sherrif was talking about last night? Have they found him yet? I wouldnt be suprised if this individual is far from liberal given his potential involvment in a terrorist assasination plot to murder a Democrat.