Are Christians responsible for the hatred of Jews today?

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Inuyasha
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12 Jan 2011, 1:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
This thread looks to me like it is just another attempt to bash Christians. I think the overwhelming majority of Christians take no issue with Jewish People. If you want to look for anti-sematism these days, you see more blatent examples from Muslims.


+1

Most of the "hate" being attributed to Christians stems from what came to be known as the Spanish Inquisition, and no doubt Hitler and perhaps others (not all that religious) used the Jews as a convenient scapegoat for public anger, but since WWII, to say modern Christians hate Jews is hard to prove. I see anything but that.


Martin Luther, the god-father of the Protestant movement cursed the Jews on his death bed.

ruveyn


And I care why? First you're talking a couple hundred years before anyone currently alive was even born, second I'm a Methodist, a lot of Protestant groups split off from each other early on.



waltur
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12 Jan 2011, 2:01 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
This thread looks to me like it is just another attempt to bash Christians. I think the overwhelming majority of Christians take no issue with Jewish People. If you want to look for anti-sematism these days, you see more blatent examples from Muslims.


+1

Most of the "hate" being attributed to Christians stems from what came to be known as the Spanish Inquisition, and no doubt Hitler and perhaps others (not all that religious) used the Jews as a convenient scapegoat for public anger, but since WWII, to say modern Christians hate Jews is hard to prove. I see anything but that.


Martin Luther, the god-father of the Protestant movement cursed the Jews on his death bed.

ruveyn


And I care why? First you're talking a couple hundred years before anyone currently alive was even born, second I'm a Methodist, a lot of Protestant groups split off from each other early on.


Image

mmmmmmethodists.


how does methodist doctrine differ from that of the lutherans?

though i should point out that luther's anti-semitic rantings were near the end of his life and have been attributed to a failing mind. i quite like a lot of luther's contributions to christianity and i expect you probably do as well.


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Inuyasha
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12 Jan 2011, 2:05 pm

waltur wrote:
though i should point out that luther's anti-semitic rantings were near the end of his life and have been attributed to a failing mind. i quite like a lot of luther's contributions to christianity and i expect you probably do as well.


Thank you for being honest and admitting this last point, you've shown to be a much better person than most of the people with leftist political views here.



TechnicalPacifist
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12 Jan 2011, 2:18 pm

Last time I checked, the Jews were just another ethnic group of the Roman Empire until the Christian faith rose and its followers decided to misinterpret their own religion.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 2:28 pm

TechnicalPacifist wrote:
Last time I checked, the Jews were just another ethnic group of the Roman Empire until the Christian faith rose and its followers decided to misinterpret their own religion.


Not so. The Jews, as Jews, gave the Romans a hard time. They were a p.i.t.a. to the Imperium Romanum which is why Jerusalem was sacked and the Second Temple destroyed.

ruveyn



pgd
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12 Jan 2011, 2:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
TechnicalPacifist wrote:
Last time I checked, the Jews were just another ethnic group of the Roman Empire until the Christian faith rose and its followers decided to misinterpret their own religion.


Not so. The Jews, as Jews, gave the Romans a hard time. They were a p.i.t.a. to the Imperium Romanum which is why Jerusalem was sacked and the Second Temple destroyed.

ruveyn


---

Yes, the destruction of the Second Temple/ the Masada story clearly shows that the Romans did not like the Jews / some of the ideas of the Jews. Fascist Rome had no room for non-conformists such as Judaism / the Jews.



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12 Jan 2011, 4:16 pm

Modern Christianity is not as anti-Jewish as it once was. The Muslims are now more anti-Jewish than they were in medieval times.
Medieval Roman Catholicism was very anti-Jewish. AntiSemitic doctrines remained in Catholic canon until Vatican II. The Eastern Orthodox were just as anti-Jewish. Some of the early Protestants (like Luther) never lost their deep hatred for Jews. The Protestants were less antiJewish because they sent much of their time being anti-Catholic.
The medieval Muslims were a little better, but there were anti-Jewish rulers in the Islamic world too. Starting in the 30s the Muslims became more anti-Jewish because of Israel.
The question is somewhat right. The medieval Churches contributed to the belief that Jews were sinister. Also different groups of Jews hated each other and spread lies about other Jews.



zer0netgain
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12 Jan 2011, 8:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Martin Luther, the god-father of the Protestant movement cursed the Jews on his death bed.

ruveyn


Irrelevant. The OP and this thread is talking about TODAY. The past is the past, and I don't know of really any Christian denomination that is anti-Jew or anti-Israel.

I've heard some people try to make a stir by invoking anti-Semitic rhetoric, but it's not common at all.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 9:49 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Martin Luther, the god-father of the Protestant movement cursed the Jews on his death bed.

ruveyn


Irrelevant. The OP and this thread is talking about TODAY. The past is the past, and I don't know of really any Christian denomination that is anti-Jew or anti-Israel.

I've heard some people try to make a stir by invoking anti-Semitic rhetoric, but it's not common at all.


Blood (racial) antisemitism originated in Catholic Spain and in the Islamic Domains. It was picked up later by Protestants, particularly the German Protestants. The Jewish refusal to throw in with later monotheistic movement made Jews extremely unpopular. Look at it from a Christian p.o.v. Christians are offering Jews Salvation on a Silver Platter and the Jews refuse it. Conclusion, the refusal is due to wicked and ungodly stubborness and so on and so on.....

From the Jewish p.o.v. the offer of salvation is bogus and of course Jews refuse it. It is blasphemy but what is worse, it is silly.

ruveyn



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12 Jan 2011, 10:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
This thread looks to me like it is just another attempt to bash Christians. I think the overwhelming majority of Christians take no issue with Jewish People. If you want to look for anti-sematism these days, you see more blatent examples from Muslims.


+1

Most of the "hate" being attributed to Christians stems from what came to be known as the Spanish Inquisition, and no doubt Hitler and perhaps others (not all that religious) used the Jews as a convenient scapegoat for public anger, but since WWII, to say modern Christians hate Jews is hard to prove. I see anything but that.


Martin Luther, the god-father of the Protestant movement cursed the Jews on his death bed.

ruveyn


Anybody dying in peace would curse anybody else crowding a death bed. What were all those Jews doing on the poor man's deathbed?



JNathanK
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13 Jan 2011, 4:27 am

I wouldn't say that, as a whole, they're responsible. After all, Jesus was a Jew. I think the Gospel of John casts Judas in a more villainous light, much more than Matthew, and definitely more than The Gospel of Judas Iscariot, but this just indicates that there's different ways to interpret Christianity. I think now that the Nag Hammadi library's been dug up, I'd like to see more people study these books that the Holy Roman Empite tried to suppress.



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13 Jan 2011, 4:57 am

Antisemitism was alive and well here in the United States well through and past the mid-20th Century. It now seems to have died off, and although I've heard a couple anti-Semitic slurs and met a couple neo-Nazis (they show up at punk shows and other subcultural events now and then, and frequently get the tar beaten out of them), I've never felt seriously at risk. Nothing like the fear, hatred, violence and injury (deprived of two of my teeth by a fist to the head) I've faced as a queer and transgender person. Organizations to combat queer-bashing and transphobia make me want to donate, volunteer, speak up; organizations to combat antisemitism here in America - especially the ADL - mostly just make me cringe with their paranoid and right-wing rhetoric, the way they quietly profit off the phantom of the Holocaust, and their general uselessness. I'm not saying antisemitism doesn't exist, but it's concentrated in places like Eastern Europe, Russia and the Middle East, not here in the U.S.

There are still occasional smoulderings of Christian antisemitism here in the U.S. - witness Ann Coulter's remark about Jews as needing to be "perfected" by way of being saved by Jesus, and The Passion of The Christ - but the real guilt that Christianity holds is in creating and perpetuating so many of those antisemitic stereotypes in the first place, and in persecuting Jews so frequently for supposedly being those things: greedy, controlling, wicked, Satanic, defective, persecutors of Christian children, drinkers of blood.


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ruveyn
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13 Jan 2011, 7:01 am

Sand wrote:
Anybody dying in peace would curse anybody else crowding a death bed. What were all those Jews doing on the poor man's deathbed?


Martin Luther while on his death bead dying cursed the Jews (who were else where) and wished them to be burned. Apparently he was miffed because they didn't come running to be converted to Christianity when Luther decided to make nice.

ruveyn



Sand
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13 Jan 2011, 8:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anybody dying in peace would curse anybody else crowding a death bed. What were all those Jews doing on the poor man's deathbed?


Martin Luther while on his death bead dying cursed the Jews (who were else where) and wished them to be burned. Apparently he was miffed because they didn't come running to be converted to Christianity when Luther decided to make nice.

ruveyn


Statistically speaking it's not necessary for Jews to be burned to spread their light. They are frequently rather bright people. A Jew like Jesus Christ should be quite acceptable to Luther.



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13 Jan 2011, 11:52 am

zer0netgain wrote:

Irrelevant. The OP and this thread is talking about TODAY. The past is the past, and I don't know of really any Christian denomination that is anti-Jew or anti-Israel.

I've heard some people try to make a stir by invoking anti-Semitic rhetoric, but it's not common at all.


There is the Ku Klux Klan, which is a Christian organization. You can only join if you are a White, non-Jewish Christian. They didn't used to let Catholics in, but now they let in Catholics.

I don't know what denominations they attract, but I suspect primarily Baptists.



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13 Jan 2011, 6:26 pm

One thing I've slowly come to conclude is that the Medieval Christian aversion to lending money or banking essentially led to a monopoly on the practice to Jews for hundreds of years; even though Christians basically forced Medieval Jews into this niche, they hated them for it, as control of banking is certainly a sore point to any peasant or merchant. To this day these feelings remain, probably because many Jewish communities are close knit and financially responsible, which is a sensible thing to do if you are part of a small but vocal minority, and often the case being that they'll do well during rough times (like the Great Depression, and the way the German Nazi Party then used this fact against them, is like a microcosm of history in a way). I don't know about blaming the average Christian though this is more an issue of Medieval Vatican doctrine overriding common sense over hundreds of years