Will animal rights ever be established?

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I am not conviced that is true.


The herd from which we eat should be in good condition ...

It definitely is. Thats the main reason we've had to make cut backs here, and then the elderly are left to suffer.

...which is why I never suggested giving and guaranteeing an equal "right to life" for all living creatures.

What we would do with all the animals that would otherwise be eaten is that we wouldn't breed them in the first place. If you reduce the demand for a manufactured product, the supply will reduce to meet that reduced demand.

I don't hear much about fox hunting around here. For most hunting, dogs are mainly used for tracking and retrieving, dead animals after they have been shot.

Oh, and my picky eating habits are not that simply explained.

I'd like to disclaim: I freaking love meat. I smoke cigarettes, and generally am not a "health nut". MY problem is IGNORANCE. People don't know what they're eating, and it irritates the crap out of me.

I agree that the way we produce food in America is incredibly unnatural and inhumane. If you look at the way other countries produce their food, there is a lot to be learned. There is plenty of space in the United States for free range animals, the bottom line IS in fact "the bottom line" Chickens are jammed together into cages, their beaks clipped off, denied the ability to walk about or socialize normally because it is "cost effective".
People like Temple Grandin and others have made real and practical differences in the way animal husbandry, livestock farming, and humane slaughter have been handled in America. Grandin's brilliance lies in the fact that she has made what is humane also cost-effective. Slowly, awareness is being raised about how dysfunctional the American system for producing food is, and the ways in which it affects our health DIRECTLY, not just theoretically. Documentaries like Supersize Me and Food, Inc. are helping people understand where our food really comes from. When your average school-age child cannot recognize a potato, you know you're in trouble.

There are great movements happening looking toward the future of food, like the Slow Food movement, which stresses the importance of local and seasonal eating, and the prohibitive and ridiculous costs of big box farming.

Some HomeSchooled Kid Makes Some Good Points

Yeah, nothing wrong if they are just used to retrieve the dead animals. But not to rip the fox's apart.

Haha, I was kidding.

Hahaha, "animal rights". How can we give them rights if they can't even tell us exactly what rights they seek?

I agree that they should be treated well, but come on. This is something PETA would come up with.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64M0UC20100523

http://motherboard.tv/2011/1/11/dolphin ... ons-too--2

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/10/5937.full

As long as the flesh of fowl, fish and mammal is tasty you can be sure the rights of such animals will never be recognized. If God didn't want us to eat these critters why did He make them taste so good?

ruveyn

Sound like my kind of lady.





There's a lot to be said on both sides of this matter. The cost efficiency is necessary for many people to just be able to eat. Would you rather people eat crap or eat nothing? That's the case for many people here in this country (we have much of the third world here tucked away from our first world areas).

There's many healthy benefits animals being raised, fed, and exercised properly before slaughter. It's literally healthier meat for the consumer rather than the abused animals' meat. I think it's always a great choice to make when the option is available. But the problem is that this option is not available to everyone.

If there's other misgivings going on beyond simply the problems of factory farms themselves and something like price-fixing or other such shenanigans, that needs to be brought to light. And it wouldn't surprise me...I've read such things going on with dairy farmers in the northeast to where smaller farmers can't operate and "regulations" are used to "expense" small farmers out of business in favor of the much larger factories who can live up to such "regulations".

But I don't think it's as simplistic as many people put it.

And SuperSize Me was just a garbage documentary. A man whose diet consisted of his vegan chef wife's cooking going on a 30 day, 3 meals/day McDonald's binge with the caveat that if he's offered the supersize, he has to take it? Yeah...it's real easy to see how such a person could end up going into a sort of shock with such a drastic change in diet. The undying fry thing and the undying burger thing that's been shown since are just bad pseudo-science. Leaving something out in the open air doesn't mean that it'll rot, there's a number of other requirements for decay...especially of something that has just been essentially pasteurized.

Bringing god into it is a whole other argument Have you ever tried human flesh?

Flattery will get you far.

I agree that Supersize Me was NOT a scientific study, at all. It was a case study....ish. I just like someone questioning things, and thinking critically. I don't have to agree with everything. I like it when a person takes the initiative to say, "I will do science to it(my body)! !! !" I get tired of so many human beings just plodding along in their lives, not giving a crap what goes into their eye-hole, ear-hole, mouth-hole, whatever. Let's watch Fox News! You know?

But seriously...look up "hydrogenation" or the MSDS sheet for "Strawberry Flavor" and just...think about it for a while. This is the first generation in the United States predicted to have a shorter life span than the previous one.

Cost efficiency is paramount for solving world hunger, but the answer is not cutting the cost of food production. (Weird, i just had this rant on another thread about "dolphin murder") World Hunger is actually a problem of 1. poverty (people cannot afford the food that is available, like hunger even in developed countries like the United States) and 2. distribution (the food is not getting to the people who need to eat it.)
The world actually produces MORE than enough food to feed every single person on the planet. The problem is distribution: the money needs to go into local and sustainable systems and methods of producing food, instead of spending billions of dollars in fossil fuels to SEND food all over the place!


**and yes, the stuff about purposely sending independent farmers out of business, SEED PATENTS(! !!), and generally the government protecting industrial farming techniques is mostly all true. An especially telling issue is this case:
Montesano Canada Inc. vs. Schmeiser

I addressed distribution a bit in the other thread. Poverty is an issue that deals with money and while I have my own crazy notions about it, I'm one of the people where money is a concrete matter rather than a much more fluid idea and tool. Conceptually, it should be more of a dynamic tool for everyone but that isn't something I think we should discuss in this thread. I'm a bit more of a Keynesian now after having gone through an Austrian economics streak (I evolve!!); but the way money is currently treated right now is somewhere between the two schools and everyone suffers in the end for it. There's also the class warfare bit where the rich are doing their best to keep as much of their money to no use for society on the whole (and I think it's also causing a worsening of inflation beyond government creation and spending of money)....but again, money doesn't fit in animal rights threads and my ideas on money are a mix of fact and fiction so I'm probably wrong in most spots.

I'm reading a book on money but I have my doubts about whether anyone who studies money would respect it.

Not kosher.

ruveyn

I may be totally against animal abuse and torture, and I definitely don't like to see any animal suffer in pain and agony, but if such a wish is going to be at the expense of humans suffering and having to make sacrifices just so animals don't get killed for food, then forget it. Some humans need meat to survive after all.

One thing we can help animals with is kill them in a painless way or in as less painful way as possible. I think this is already being taken care in this day and age.

Note that I do have compassion for animals, and I hope one day a time will come when animals and humans are all treated fairly and protected from harm and suffering. If only ...

SUBOTAI.......no animal rights in our lifetime. you will find that on wrong planet, as in the general population, when people say 'i love animals', they generally mean their dog or cat. the rest of non-humans can go die. sad but true.

check out some of the peta topics on random disc. and political forums. peta, the organization that has done the most for animal rights, is trashed for trying to make the life of non-human animals better.

i've been working for the advancement of animal causes for 15 years. things are worse for animals now than they were 15 years ago. just look at wild, free running horses in the west. being rounded up and sold for as little as 100 dollars. most go to buyers for slaughter plants in canada and mexico....steaks for europe and japan. what is happening to the land. being used, free of charge , by cattle farmer/ranchers.

when politicians are given a chance to rate the things that concern them most and deserve legislative attention, animal causes are ALWAYS at the bottom of the list. some of that thought is due to the nra and animal farming groups.....lots of campaign contributions. the nra is the no 1 obstacle to advancing causes for animals.

the best you can do is act local. help your local animal shelters and sanctuaries. join a rescue group. you will be amazed at the great feeling you will get when you take dogs from puppy mills and give them personal attention for the first time in their lives. put them on grass after living in rabbit cages for years.....it's amazing. did you know that the worlds densest population of puppy mills is lancaster, pa. amish. their culture leads them to treat non-human animals like trash.

develop a thick skin if you want to champion animals on wrong planet. there is a dedicated group who will trash you for being such a human. i call them michael vicks/sarah palins. maybe there's a large percentage of amish haunting wrong planet.