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Aspergers and atheism

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Are you autism spectrum disorder and atheist?
yes 67%  67%  [ 47 ]
no 33%  33%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 70

Bethie
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10 Apr 2011, 1:06 am

cdfox7 wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I certainly think there is a disproportionate amount of Aspie atheists compared to the general population. While the fact that atheists seem to be more common on the Interwebs may explain part of the heavy atheistic concentration on WP, I think other factors are at work.

Much of the most enduringly religious tend to believe they have a very personal relationship with God. This is in large part because they're mirror neuron system is functioning in hyper-drive - attributing intentionality to a being that doesn't exist. Since Aspies have trouble ascribing intentionality to other people due to a less developed mirror neuron system, it's quite rationale to assume that they'd have problems ascribing intentionality to very abstract, intangible entities like deities.


Not all believe systems prescript to the idea of abstract intangible entities for deities.


Theism by definition does, the lack of which is the topic.


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10 Apr 2011, 1:10 am

cdfox7 wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I certainly think there is a disproportionate amount of Aspie atheists compared to the general population. While the fact that atheists seem to be more common on the Interwebs may explain part of the heavy atheistic concentration on WP, I think other factors are at work.

Much of the most enduringly religious tend to believe they have a very personal relationship with God. This is in large part because they're mirror neuron system is functioning in hyper-drive - attributing intentionality to a being that doesn't exist. Since Aspies have trouble ascribing intentionality to other people due to a less developed mirror neuron system, it's quite rationale to assume that they'd have problems ascribing intentionality to very abstract, intangible entities like deities.


Not all believe systems prescript to the idea of abstract intangible entities for deities.


So? The most common belief systems in the West involve entities that are a weird mix of commonsense, intentional, concrete person-like characteristics and intangible, abstract qualities. The reason these entities are so "believable" or "real" to people is because they are constructed as being people-like in terms of mind and character. Most neurotheological theories, from what I understand, postulate a relation between mirror neurons and the "personal relationship" with God. Since Aspie mirror neurons aren't hyper-active, I think it's quite reasonable to assume that's the explanation for below-average levels of theism.


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cdfox7
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10 Apr 2011, 1:55 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I certainly think there is a disproportionate amount of Aspie atheists compared to the general population. While the fact that atheists seem to be more common on the Interwebs may explain part of the heavy atheistic concentration on WP, I think other factors are at work.

Much of the most enduringly religious tend to believe they have a very personal relationship with God. This is in large part because they're mirror neuron system is functioning in hyper-drive - attributing intentionality to a being that doesn't exist. Since Aspies have trouble ascribing intentionality to other people due to a less developed mirror neuron system, it's quite rationale to assume that they'd have problems ascribing intentionality to very abstract, intangible entities like deities.


Not all believe systems prescript to the idea of abstract intangible entities for deities.


So? The most common belief systems in the West involve entities that are a weird mix of commonsense, intentional, concrete person-like characteristics and intangible, abstract qualities. The reason these entities are so "believable" or "real" to people is because they are constructed as being people-like in terms of mind and character. Most neurotheological theories, from what I understand, postulate a relation between mirror neurons and the "personal relationship" with God. Since Aspie mirror neurons aren't hyper-active, I think it's quite reasonable to assume that's the explanation for below-average levels of theism.


No offence that same line of reasoning about being people-like with person-like characteristics and qualities can be used with virtual social interactions on the Internet via human-computer interfacing. In the field of Multi-Agent Systems, software agents are given human-like characteristics & human begins are consided agents. The Turing test (like the Voigt-Kampff test in Blade Runner) is used in AI to differentiate human intelligence from computer intelligence via engaging in a natural language conversation. Don't know, you Atheists man wish to Turing test god, if you what do then please feel free do so of your own choice.

At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question



Bethie
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10 Apr 2011, 9:07 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


Atheism is no more a "view" or an "idea" than non-capitalism is, or non-feminism.


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10 Apr 2011, 9:12 pm

Bethie wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


Atheism is no more a "view" or an "idea" than non-capitalism is, or non-feminism.

The issue is that atheism is a social movement with views and ideas. Atheists usually identify themselves with rationality, science, and naturalistic ontology.



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10 Apr 2011, 9:16 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
No offence that same line of reasoning about being people-like with person-like characteristics and qualities can be used with virtual social interactions on the Internet via human-computer interfacing. In the field of Multi-Agent Systems, software agents are given human-like characteristics & human begins are consided agents. The Turing test (like the Voigt-Kampff test in Blade Runner) is used in AI to differentiate human intelligence from computer intelligence via engaging in a natural language conversation. Don't know, you Atheists man wish to Turing test god, if you what do then please feel free do so of your own choice.

At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


To be honest, I don't see the logical connections or point of this post or how it in anyway contradicts my causal mechanism for why aspies would be less theistic (i.e. the less mirror neuron activity hypothesis).


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10 Apr 2011, 9:22 pm

Bethie wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


Atheism is no more a "view" or an "idea" than non-capitalism is, or non-feminism.


From the philosophical scene it is a view & idea. Then again your comment do have the undertones of this question, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?



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10 Apr 2011, 9:32 pm

While online polls should never be taken too seriously or used as a source of data, I really think it would have been a better idea to break the poll into four options - "Aspie & Atheist", "Aspie and not Atheist", "NT and Atheist", "NT and not Atheist" - to really make meaningful comparisons.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Apr 2011, 9:34 pm

Athiest? Close. to say that I *am* ASD though might be a bit pretentious.


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10 Apr 2011, 9:40 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
No offence that same line of reasoning about being people-like with person-like characteristics and qualities can be used with virtual social interactions on the Internet via human-computer interfacing. In the field of Multi-Agent Systems, software agents are given human-like characteristics & human begins are consided agents. The Turing test (like the Voigt-Kampff test in Blade Runner) is used in AI to differentiate human intelligence from computer intelligence via engaging in a natural language conversation. Don't know, you Atheists man wish to Turing test god, if you what do then please feel free do so of your own choice.

At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


To be honest, I don't see the logical connections or point of this post or how it in anyway contradicts my causal mechanism for why aspies would be less theistic (i.e. the less mirror neuron activity hypothesis).


In very much the same way that I can't see the connections for Neuroscience to be the only factor involved in a person's choice of believe. An Atheists' only tool of argument for there believes is logical reasoning, one could say that computers are Atheists but then again are computer human beings?



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10 Apr 2011, 9:40 pm

It seems the only link you found yet is the anecdote that this forum has plenty of AS people.

I guess that something about not being in the NT side of the world makes us more likely not to go with conventional things, religion may be one but I don't think there is any strong evidence of that. More so, I've seen very religious people in this forum.

Besides, not everyone in this forum are AS. I sure once thought I had it but I now just hand out in PPR because you won't find any other forum that is full of outcasts and with the amazing freedom of speech there is here. I am however quite sure I have another thing, but the forums for that thing are much less sympathetic to me.

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Bethie wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
At the end of the day I respect the views & ideas of Atheists, agreeing with them views & ideas is a different question


Atheism is no more a "view" or an "idea" than non-capitalism is, or non-feminism.

The issue is that atheism is a social movement with views and ideas. Atheists usually identify themselves with rationality, science, and naturalistic ontology.


The issue is that it isn't. It is dumb of some atheists to think that just because you don't believe in god you are supposed to follow their views about social subjects/etc. I remember a certain atheist blogger that for some stupid reason thinks not eating animals is part of being an atheist. Their sillyness only proves that atheism can't stop you from being silly, irrational or a bigot. But it does not mean atheism is by itself a "social movement with views and ideas" They were not silly, irrational , bigots or had their social ideas because of being atheists, but they happened to have those traits AND atheism.


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Last edited by Vexcalibur on 10 Apr 2011, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Apr 2011, 9:52 pm

I'm neither and both.
See this post to see what I mean -> http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3538724.html&highlight=#3538724


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10 Apr 2011, 10:39 pm

I'm an Atheist for logical reasons. To me religion is an emotional response to the unexplained and that response is illogical.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:40 pm

I've always been an Atheist


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10 Apr 2011, 10:45 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
In very much the same way that I can't see the connections for Neuroscience to be the only factor involved in a person's choice of believe.


Strictly speaking, neuroscience is the only explanation for why people DO, THINk, FEEL, BELIEVE anything as all human mentality is ultimately neural. But I'll interprete you're question more charitably as why inanate neurological predispositions should be the only explanation for one's atheism rather than experientally induced later neural changes (life experience). In this case, while there's certainly many reasons an individual could be atheist, the primary reason there are more atheist Aspies than atheists in the general population is because a lot of theism is based on a human-like, emotional connection to "God" that depends on mirror neurons.

cdfox7 wrote:
An Atheists' only tool of argument for there believes is logical reasoning, one could say that computers are Atheists but then again are computer human beings?


I don't see how this statement is connected to anything, but most computers really don't have anything resembling a human-like capacity to logically reason about entities like "God" or "snowshoes" or "what Sally is thinking".


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10 Apr 2011, 10:51 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
The issue is that it isn't. It is dumb of some atheists to think that just because you don't believe in god you are supposed to follow their views about social subjects/etc. I remember a certain atheist blogger that for some stupid reason thinks not eating animals is part of being an atheist. Their sillyness only proves that atheism can't stop you from being silly, irrational or a bigot. But it does not mean atheism is by itself a "social movement with views and ideas" They were not silly, irrational , bigots or had their social ideas because of being atheists, but they happened to have those traits AND atheism.

But, Vexcalibur, either you're denying events like "Skepticon" and so on and so forth, or Atheism has a definition including it being a social movement within our society. Now, atheism can also be just a lack of belief in gods. A word can have more than one definition. However, to deny that there is an atheist movement with atheist figures and so on and so forth is either ignorance or willful self-deception.

I am not saying "Atheism entails that a person respect reason". I am saying "There is an atheist movement that includes larger values such as rationality, science, and naturalism", and this point is hit upon by PZ Myers, who is an intellectual in that atheist movement that has obvious signs of its existence, even with free thinkers conventions and churches of free thought, and so on and so forth.