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larsenjw92286
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20 Jan 2005, 8:01 pm

Sorry, Melvis. I was just restating the point that there is no cure for autism. I apologize if I negatively criticized the writer of the article with that headline. To reiterate something that was said earlier, Asperger's Syndrome is a gift, we, as people like such, occasionally have trouble, and we can't learn without trouble. That way, we can actually get something out of what we are told. Melvis, if we have people who we count on, like you, we can learn positively. Thank you for your important words.


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duncvis
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20 Jan 2005, 8:05 pm

My problem with CAN is that they fund and lobby for genetic research in their search for a medical cure - money which would be better spent researching ways to help profoundly autistic children to cope better, and time better spent on lobbying for better recognition of the rights , for example, of parents struggling to get adequate support in the education system, or improving the situation of autistic people in the workplace. I see their activities as misplaced and not in the best interests of people across the breadth of the spectrum, and the effect on how others see us from their activities.


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dce
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20 Jan 2005, 8:31 pm

One of the benifits of learning the genetic components to AS would be faster diagnosis in the future and more correct diagnosis. Just a thought about genetic research not being a total waste.



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20 Jan 2005, 8:36 pm

dce wrote:
One of the benifits of learning the genetic components to AS would be faster diagnosis in the future and more correct diagnosis. Just a thought about genetic research not being a total waste.


I agree. While some people would argue that genetic research promotes screening, I think it will ultimately prove to be beneficial to autistics.


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Mel
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20 Jan 2005, 8:42 pm

Another point about genetic research- it doesn't always necessarily lead to screening- it could also lead to gene therapy. As an example if a treatment was developed that could reduce sensory overload problems (from having oversensitive hearing for example) surely this would be a good thing for those that really suffer with this problem??

Mel


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20 Jan 2005, 8:51 pm

Good points - I stand corrected :oops: I was focused on the use of such research for screening tests. Gene therapy would be a benefit to many of us, and I had overlooked this application totally... also a clear cut 'yes you have it, no you dont' would be helpful for people seeking diagnosis or questioning one.

/dunc gets off his soap box, looking a bit sheepish...


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20 Jan 2005, 8:53 pm

The whole idea of genetic screening and modification (when they get around to figuring that out) scares the heck out of me. I think that these things should not be allowed to happen as science will be upping the ante to whole new level.

If screening becomes a regular thing we will ultimately end up in a situation where the doctor will tell mom and dad, "Well this embryo is male and has all the genetic markers of someone who will have aspergers syndrome (or any other genetic difference)"

Once the parents find out what AS all entails, the doctor will then pop the $64,000 question.

"Now that you know what your child might face in life, do you wish to abort this embryo?"

These kinds of things will end up hurting more people than they will help, and thats why I don't wish to see these things happen.


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dce
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20 Jan 2005, 8:58 pm

Knowledge can be use in a useful and good way or in a bad and wrong way. It is up to the people of the world to deside how to use it. And since we are part of the world we have to act in the way best for us and the world. As far as what that means I should do exactly I am still working on that :)



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20 Jan 2005, 9:22 pm

What you have to bear in mind with pre-natal screening Scoots is that it isn't something that is done in the first couple of weeks of pregnancy and by the time it can be done the parents have often already bonded with their unborn child. Plus it is unlikely that a test would be so sensitive that it could differentiat between AS and other ASD's.
The decision to abort a child is not an easy one and I doubt that most parents would just decide without any soul-searching to get rid of a child because it might have an ASD.
There are many parents who would decide not to have the test, and there are many that would decide against an abortion even if they got a positive test- just as there are with the screening tests that are currently available today.

Genetic research does not just mean developing pre-natal screening and pre-natal screening does not just lead to every baby who may have a particular condition being aborted.


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20 Jan 2005, 9:30 pm

Melvis wrote:
BTW- I am not sure how I feel about this issue- for me I feel that I don't want to be cured, but I don't feel that I can speak for everyone.


I don't think it is a matter of being cured, but being functional and, if need be assisted in overcoming some humps that block achievement of a happy/good quality of life over the negative aspects of ASDs, at least if they are great enough to cause inability to achieve a selfaceptable/functional quality of life, WITHOUT, DIMINISHING THE POSITIVE ASCPECTS OF ASDS, as that is an essentional function/element of ones uniqueness (whether NT or ASD or whatever) and sense of self. After traits you are born with or had most or all your life should not all be erased and could not all be negative, where then would your new personality, chi, soul, essences, being or what not come from? Would you not then be a blank slate like an erased robot or computer?

Food for thought.



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20 Jan 2005, 9:37 pm

Your essence would not be wiped out by having treatment for some of the problems you face- I don't think we're talking about completely wiping out all a persons autistic traits, rather offering treatment for those issues that cause problems functioning in everyday life. Your sense of self comes from your experiences. And I am can tell I'm not going to be able to express myself very clearly right now (well it is almost 2:30am) so I'll have to try to be clearer in the morning.


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20 Jan 2005, 9:40 pm

Melvis wrote:
What you have to bear in mind with pre-natal screening Scoots is that it isn't something that is done in the first couple of weeks of pregnancy and by the time it can be done the parents have often already bonded with their unborn child. Plus it is unlikely that a test would be so sensitive that it could differentiat between AS and other ASD's.
The decision to abort a child is not an easy one and I doubt that most parents would just decide without any soul-searching to get rid of a child because it might have an ASD.
There are many parents who would decide not to have the test, and there are many that would decide against an abortion even if they got a positive test- just as there are with the screening tests that are currently available today.

Genetic research does not just mean developing pre-natal screening and pre-natal screening does not just lead to every baby who may have a particular condition being aborted.


If it was just to test for an ASD say between 5 years and infinity, then it would work. If they develop it right, maybe they can do so in such a way that it would only be for that. Screening is not a problem. Manipulation is.



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20 Jan 2005, 9:42 pm

cure to me doesn't mean that I am genetically change. for me curing and coping are very close. for some people the cure for diabetes is watching what they eat and excercise. It doesn't make the diabetes go away. but they are effectively cured. Maybe it is because I see the end result of being happier as the same as being cured. Not sure if that makes sense to others though



Mel
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20 Jan 2005, 9:51 pm

Epimonandas wrote:

If it was just to test for an ASD say between 5 years and infinity, then it would work. If they develop it right, maybe they can do so in such a way that it would only be for that. Screening is not a problem. Manipulation is.


I agree with you there- but I was actually responding to the whole pre-natal screening followed by huge numbers of abortions debate.


Just out of interest why 5 years??? Surely it would be better to have the test at an earlier age so that support systems could be in place for the child when they start pre-school.


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20 Jan 2005, 10:30 pm

Quote:
cure to me doesn't mean that I am genetically change. for me curing and coping are very close. for some people the cure for diabetes is watching what they eat and excercise. It doesn't make the diabetes go away. but they are effectively cured. Maybe it is because I see the end result of being happier as the same as being cured. Not sure if that makes sense to others though


dce, you are making perfect sense. I agree with you, I have heard many people basically use those terms interchangeably. Nothing will make my AS go away, but I am able to learn how to socialise, learn to read body language, learn to put things I have to do before my obsessions, and learn to cope with sensory issues. All of these things are part of the basic diagnostic criteria for AS. But once I have learned to cope (or am cured) I still technically have AS.



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21 Jan 2005, 2:30 am

larsenjw92286 wrote:
To reiterate something that was said earlier, Asperger's Syndrome is a gift, we, as people like such, occasionally have trouble, and we can't learn without trouble.


maybe a little off topic, but... i don't count every day and most of the day as "occasionally". and i'm someone who got through 42 years without knowing i had AS, so i expect i'd be considered "high functioning", as i have got through all those years in the NT world. yes one can learn without trouble, not always but sometimes. and sometimes, it's just all too much, and i'd like a couple of weeks off from having to fight every day.

i'm not trying to sound pessimistic here, just pragmatic.