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Burzum
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28 May 2011, 12:29 pm

Religion - 0
Family - 6
The Government - 0
The Military - 4 (stateless or government operated?)
The Police - 6 (stateless or government operated?)
Civil society - 8
Education - 8
Free-markets - 10
National Identity - 6
Homogeneity - 2
Social Spending - 0

0, 6, 0, 4, 6, 8, 8, 10, 6, 2, 0



JakobVirgil
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28 May 2011, 12:50 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
I don't like this. Some of these things might not be necessary for a stable society, but would be for a pleasant society (ex: Feudalism, which lacked many of these things, or had others in excess, was stable and functional, but highly unpleasant). And I'm sure we can come up with a hypothetical society without government that is somehow stable, and maybe even possible, but I still think government is really necessary. Also, what is meant by family. I think families are important support structures, but when I say that I use the term family very loosely, basically covering any group that loves each other and is there for one another. Also, to say one supports "the family" is usually interpreted to mean they support bigoted and backwards social values--which I most certainly do not. That said, here are my ratings:
1,8,8,0,7,10,10,3,5,1,9


your answers are not interpreted they simply give me a way to place you in 11 dimensional space
in regards to the other subjects. (I just like doing the math :wink:)


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Philologos
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28 May 2011, 1:07 pm

Anyway, it does not ask "do you support the family", but "is 'family' important in a good society"



puddingmouse
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28 May 2011, 2:19 pm

Religion
Family
The Government
The Military
The Police
Civil society
Education
Free-markets
National Identity
Homogeneity
Social Spending

2,5,5,2,2,10,10,7,1,1,7


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AstroGeek
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28 May 2011, 4:39 pm

Philologos wrote:
Anyway, it does not ask "do you support the family", but "is 'family' important in a good society"

Essentially the same thing.

But if these statistics are gathered and compared then when people look at it they will draw conclusions and make assumptions--regardless as to whether JakobVirgil will or not.



Vexcalibur
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28 May 2011, 4:59 pm

Religion: 0
Family: 2
The Government: 1
The Military: 0
The Police: 1
Civil society: 1
Education: 7
Free-markets: 1
National Identity: 0
Homogeneity: 0
Social Spending : 3


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MarketAndChurch
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28 May 2011, 5:14 pm

Religion 6
Family 8
The Government 2
The Military 7
The Police 8
Civil society 4
Education 6
Free-markets 8
National Identity 5
Homogeneity 1
Social Spending 1

6,8,2,7,8,4,6,8,5,1,1


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AceOfSpades
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28 May 2011, 5:38 pm

Religion - 0: Nuff said
Family - 10: The family unit is critical to the psychosocial development of an individual.
The Government - 3: Most things are best left unf*cked by macro-management.
The Military - 7: National security and the sustenance of sovereignty are essential for the nation.
The Police - 3: Crooks fear armed citizens a lot more than cops.
Civil society: - 9 These type of institutions have no strings attached and can do a lot of good for the communities.
Education - 6: The best lessons in life are learned outside the safe and controlled environment of an institution.
Free-markets - 8: Although there has to be some regulation to prevent things like deforestation and massive pollution, for the most part regulation only serves to stagnate the economy and drive people out of business.
National Identity - 0: It doesn't pertain to the livability of the nation at all.
Homogeneity - 3: Although diversity is a good thing, some sort of commonality makes things sail smoothly.
Social Spending - 3: I believe in an absolute bare minimum safety net and social programs geared towards teaching a man to fish rather than giving a fish a day. Although private charity is much more efficient than social welfare, it still isn't efficient enough to be relied on alone.

0, 10, 3, 7, 3, 9, 6, 8, 0, 3, 3.



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 31 May 2011, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philologos
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28 May 2011, 6:17 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Anyway, it does not ask "do you support the family", but "is 'family' important in a good society"

Essentially the same thing.

But if these statistics are gathered and compared then when people look at it they will draw conclusions and make assumptions--regardless as to whether JakobVirgil will or not.


Actually, the little I know of poli talk suggests they are NOT the same thing.

"support the family" tends to be like the "right to choose" a PC slogan - family values, gay marriage schtunkt, all like that.

Families are a basic part of human society building, but a particular family format is a separate proposition.



AceOfSpades
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28 May 2011, 6:33 pm

Philologos wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Anyway, it does not ask "do you support the family", but "is 'family' important in a good society"

Essentially the same thing.

But if these statistics are gathered and compared then when people look at it they will draw conclusions and make assumptions--regardless as to whether JakobVirgil will or not.


Actually, the little I know of poli talk suggests they are NOT the same thing.

"support the family" tends to be like the "right to choose" a PC slogan - family values, gay marriage schtunkt, all like that.

Families are a basic part of human society building, but a particular family format is a separate proposition.
Dude I don't think he intended for it to be a loaded question. The importance of family in society doesn't necessarily mean you believe in "family values". I think the important thing is that a kid is brought up by two parents instilled with values essential to life. Those two parents don't have to consist of a man and a woman, and the sexualization of the media has nothing to do with it either.



Philologos
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28 May 2011, 8:05 pm

AceofSpades -

I was responding to this from Astrogeek:

"Also, to say one supports "the family" is usually interpreted to mean they support bigoted and backwards social values--which I most certainly do not."

For myself I ignored such a reading.



Master_Pedant
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30 May 2011, 12:31 am

I salute single-parent families.


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Master_Pedant
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30 May 2011, 12:35 am

To Philologos, at least in Canada the left has adopted quite a bit of "pro-family" rhetoric (for instance, the Liberal platform of 2011 was called a plan for Families or something along those lines) and the Manitoba NDP talks about what "matters to Manitoba families".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXCOkStmI7Y&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]


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Philologos
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30 May 2011, 9:48 am

Master Pedant, intriguing.

There is a tension between the State, be he Oedipus Rex, Parliament, Glorious Leader, or the Party [outward political stance is irrelevant on this plane] wanting / needing to BE your family and wanting to be PART of your family. And where there is a tension there is a pendulum.

Noted in language history a tendency - languages tend to simplify, erode,. declutter over time. But simplification HERE means there must be an increase in complexity THERE. So languages tend to become more complex over time. Both happen at once because languages are complex and can simplify grammar while complicating phonology and so on.

I think there is a similar process in societies - there is a range within which thdey can work, take a tendency too far and things fall apart.



JakobVirgil
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31 May 2011, 5:45 am

family how I meant it is not just the nuclear family but the extended and intentional family as well.
next time the quiz will say knobs and how much do you like a thing.


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
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ValentineWiggin
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31 May 2011, 5:56 am

Religion- 0. 'Nuff said.
Family- 6.
The Government- 0.
The Military- 0.
The Police- 2.
Civil society- 10.
Education- 20.
Free-markets- 0.
National Identity- 0.
Homogeneity- 2.
Social Spending- 6.

Current societal structure presumed or no???

0, 6, 0, 0, 2, 10, 20, 0, 0, 2, 6.


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 31 May 2011, 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.