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rocklobster
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04 Jun 2011, 2:10 pm

Fnord wrote:

rocklobster wrote:

I'm tired of avoiding this site because of the huge amount of atheists on it. God wants me to be fearless in expressing my faith, so I consider this good practice. So, sorry atheists, I'm Christian and you won't change me.

No need to change you, unless you consider faith to be sufficient proof for your claims, and then ... you may have a problem.

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

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04 Jun 2011, 3:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Philologos wrote:

ruveyn:

"All beliefs are equally true, equally false and equally useful. "

There is the vigorous assertion of a false belief.

Beliefs are mental states. The adjectives true, false and useful simply do not apply. Beliefs are vapor ware as opposed to facts and true assertions.

ruveyn

Another false belief. Every fact sits on a substrate of belief, which may be as solid as I believe this chair to be Or not.

Again I say, I think your gaze has a fairly narrow range of play vertically.

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04 Jun 2011, 3:44 pm

rocklobster wrote:

Fnord wrote:

rocklobster wrote:

No need to change you, unless you consider faith to be sufficient proof for your claims, and then ... you may have a problem.

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

why?

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04 Jun 2011, 3:52 pm

rocklobster wrote:

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

Be cautious with uses of the words "actually, order, proof, belief and but" around here, for they can easily set off things you might never have meant, intended, desired or anticipated! :wink:

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04 Jun 2011, 4:15 pm

leejosepho wrote:

rocklobster wrote:

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

Be cautious with uses of the words "actually, order, proof, belief and but" around here, for they can easily set off things you might never have meant, intended, desired or anticipated! :wink:

in that you are all too right :lol:

sometimes i feel the debate is of more interest to people than the subjects themselves.

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04 Jun 2011, 4:17 pm

Philologos wrote:

.

Again I say, I think your gaze has a fairly narrow range of play vertically.

Of course. I look directly at things. Neither to the right nor the left. Not up nor down.

ruveyn

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04 Jun 2011, 4:20 pm

rocklobster wrote:

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

Oh, the Teleological Argument (aka the Watchmaker argument)? I'm afraid that careful study of the order of the world soon leads to the conclusion that any designer was either incompetent or insane. It's far preferable to assume there isn't one than either of those options.

It is always amusing to me that Christians object to atheists trying to "convert" them, when it is Christianity trying to get bums on pews and lead everyone to the Kingdom of God. Religion has strong reasons to operate as a pyramid scheme. Atheism has no afterlife or other reward for this.

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04 Jun 2011, 5:10 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

I'm afraid ...

Ah now, please just say what you mean and mean what you say, eh?!

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

... careful study of the order of the world soon leads to the conclusion that any designer was either incompetent or insane.

My own "careful study" (and that of many others also) has led to a completely opposite conclusion.

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

It is always amusing to me that Christians object to atheists trying to "convert" them, when it is Christianity trying to get bums on pews and lead everyone to the Kingdom of God.

How does that amuse you?

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04 Jun 2011, 5:51 pm

leejosepho wrote:

My own "careful study" (and that of many others also) has led to a completely opposite conclusion.

You need to look deeper.

Quote:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

It is always amusing to me that Christians object to atheists trying to "convert" them, when it is Christianity trying to get bums on pews and lead everyone to the Kingdom of God.

How does that amuse you?

Ironically.

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04 Jun 2011, 6:16 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

My own "careful study" (and that of many others also) has led to a completely opposite conclusion.

You need to look deeper.

I suspect you might actually mean something more like "more intensively" or "more comprehensively", and I would gladly hear and consider anything additional you might have to suggest following my past half-century of digging.

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

Quote:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

It is always amusing to me that Christians object to atheists trying to "convert" them, when it is Christianity trying to get bums on pews and lead everyone to the Kingdom of God.

How does that amuse you?

Ironically.

But you see nothing ironic about atheistic evangelism?

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04 Jun 2011, 8:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Philologos wrote:

.

Again I say, I think your gaze has a fairly narrow range of play vertically.

Of course. I look directly at things. Neither to the right nor the left. Not up nor down.

ruveyn

Of course. Not a condemnation. You are as God has made you. Or, if you prefer, but it is by no means certain it is truly genetic as we currently understand it, you fit in your genes.

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04 Jun 2011, 8:32 pm

It is important to recognize that cute pieces like this and the footsteps in the sand one are not anybody's cutting edge theology. Not that they are without truth, but it is absurd to scrutinize them too closely.

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04 Jun 2011, 8:57 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Cute, but I suspect the atheists are about to eat you alive.

personally i thought this was funny, i sent it to my friends on facebook lol despite me being atheist because i love things that make me laugh

i dont care what religion people are i just dont like religion because religion is the enemy of freedom, which is why America is Secular(not trying to start argument or debate because honestly i dont care right now just expressing an opinion) and i have no problem with the religious as long as their religion does not cause them to be harmful to anyone but themselves(i do NOT care what people do to themselves as long as no one else is hurt, im a supporter of legalization of drugs, most notably cannabis and shrooms, and i also support suicide but i DO NOT support abortion because that is murder, once their heart is beating i consider them human) and im especially against Fundamentalist Christian groups because, taking a complete "our way only" stance on the bible they are a MAJOR threat to our freedom, our country, and humanity in general seeing as how Revelation supports the mass extinction of mankind to be beneficial to our species since everyone who worships one God will go to heaven and everyone else will go to hell leaving no one on earth(again mass extinction)

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04 Jun 2011, 9:02 pm

rocklobster wrote:

Fnord wrote:

rocklobster wrote:

No need to change you, unless you consider faith to be sufficient proof for your claims, and then ... you may have a problem.

Actually, I consider the order the world itself proof of my belief, but that's another matter.

the problem with that is that its not actual evidence of YOUR God seeing as how EVERY other God(including the ones before your religions existence) have claimed that as their evidence as well

i can be a very spiritual person especially when i make sojourns to the wilderness and even though i feel like i connect with the planet in that moment with all that beauty around me it is still not evidence your God exists

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04 Jun 2011, 9:23 pm

And so it goes. The balloon distorts as it inflates.

Just a note -

I get the impression it is not so much atheist evangelism.

Apart from the lexical quibble - atheists have no good news for believers.

Not quite saving souls.

Seems to be seen more as a rescue deprogramming, curing the deluded of their idiocy [borrowed from Sand].

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05 Jun 2011, 2:46 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

You need to look deeper.

I'd be glad to offer new insights. But first it would help to know what your discoveries have led to.

Quote:

But you see nothing ironic about atheistic evangelism?

I dont believe there IS such a thing. Some atheists are a tad outspoken (Mr Dawkins is a particular example) but they are the minority. Atheist concerns are largely with how religion undermines rational thought, scientific progress and social reform.

I'm considerably more harsh to homeopaths.

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