Terror attack with a Nuclear Device in the Next 50 Years

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Terrorist attack with a Nuclear Device in the Next 50 years
It is not likely to happen in the US. 25%  25%  [ 3 ]
It is possible that it may happen in the US. 67%  67%  [ 8 ]
It is likely that it will happen in the US. 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
It is not likely to happen in the US, but it may happen elsewhere. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 12

aghogday
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07 Jun 2011, 8:50 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I'm not really afraid of Pakistan's nuclear weapons. They don't currently have a delivery system to hit the US or Europe even in the unlikely event they were to become compromised. They're not going to fly a bomber over the pacific to drop it on us. If Pakistan's nukes fell into the wrong hands, I'd be a lot more worried about India.

Investing in missile defense is a smart plan for to protect against foreign countries or rogue terrorists. We should be able to defend against 1 missile easily.


I agree there may be more concerns in India and the middle east if the Pakistan nukes fell into terrorist hands, but there would be a risk to the US; even if the material from the weapons were used to make a Dirty Bomb nuclear device. Also, some of the terrorists are willing to give their life in an attack, and delivery of a small nuclear weapon by truck and detonation in place by a suicide bomber is possible; hopefully we will never see it happen. Missile defense won't help us in either of these scenarios.



simon_says
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07 Jun 2011, 9:00 pm

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I said to protect from foreign countries and terrorists who may take control of those nukes.


I very much doubt that terrorists will be launching nukes from ICBM silos, or taking over submarine launched systems. The reason that US ports screen for radiological material is that the belief is terrorists would smuggle such material in by ship, not directly launch them in a way that missile defense could defeat.

Missile defense has a role. Anti-terrorism is unlikely to be involved in that role.



aghogday
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07 Jun 2011, 9:29 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I said to protect from foreign countries and terrorists who may take control of those nukes. I think we're a lot more likely to be nuked by Russia, China, or Iran once they acquire nukes than any terrorist. Don't see what is confusing about that.

While it may be slightly concerning, there is a big difference between concerning and people declaring that nuclear terrorism is inevitable. I'll start being afraid once these guys start using anything besides crude IEDs made from household items.


From the Harvard Kennedy School Review 2011 Edition:

Quote:
The Threat

It is important to understand that nuclear terrorism is not just an obsession of the paranoid and conspiracy theorists. The threat of a nuclear terrorist attack has loomed over U.S. policy makers at least since September 11 and remains frighteningly possible. U.S. President Barack Obama labeled nuclear terrorism the “single biggest threat to U.S. security,” and placed a global spotlight on the need to secure fissile material (substances that can be used to make a nuclear bomb) and improve border security around the world to reduce the risk of a nuclear strike.

Although these efforts will mitigate the threat, they cannot eliminate it completely. A 2005 poll of security experts estimated the likelihood of a nuclear terror strike within the next decade at 29 percent (Belfer Center 2007), and Matthew Bunn, associate professor of public policy at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, arrived at the same conclusion through a mathematical model. Even if the actual likelihood of a nuclear attack is far less than these predictions, the devastating consequences demand preventative attention. Americans take everyday precautions for much less horrific disasters. Take driving, for example. The chance of being killed in a transportation accident over the course of a year is only one in 6,000, yet the government requires seat belts, enforces speed limits, and demands all drivers be licensed (National Safety Council n.d). These laws exist because the government wants to protect its citizens from the dangers of car accidents; surely the government could play a larger role to encourage the populace to be prepared for nuclear terrorism.

Looking beyond the bounds of a decade, Graham Allison, director of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs and professor of government at the Kennedy School, calls nuclear terrorism “inevitable,” and many experts join him, claiming it is more a question of when than if.


http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k74756&pageid=icb.page414662

I don't agree that a state sponsored nuclear attack against the US is more likely than a terrorist sponsored attack with a nuclear device; the consequences there are not the death of a suicide bomber, but death for many people in the Country that initiates the attack. I'm not sure if Iran will be allowed to develop nukes, but if they do, there is a possibility they would be used against Israel; I doubt Israel is going to give them that opportunity.

What would China or Russia gain by attacking the US with Nukes?

North Korea is another story, all bets are off if they developed the capability of striking us; however, I imagine we will find a way to prevent them from getting that capability.



psychohist
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07 Jun 2011, 11:11 pm

I have to admit, on September 11, 2001, when all my coworkers were watching the tower fires in shock, I actually greeted the event with relief because it wasn't nuclear. I was like, "hey, let's get back to work, this isn't the big one."

The 1993 World Trade Center attack is instructive. Had the truck bomb been positioned a bit better, it would have brought down at least the north tower 8 years before it actually happened. That was one of the reasons I wasn't surprised at the success of the 1993 attack. The truck was easily large enough to hold a nuclear weapon, had Al Qaeda had one - and as people have pointed out, getting one isn't all that difficult. That's why I was more worried about a nuclear attack.

Ballistic missile technology is actually more difficult than nuclear weapon technology. The most likely delivery method for a nuclear attack on the U.S. isn't a missile, but smuggling and truck bombing.



Sand
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07 Jun 2011, 11:19 pm

As the recent tragedy at Fukushima has clearly demonstrated it takes only a bad accident at a badly designed and poorly maintained atomic power plant to destroy huge areas of a country. There is no need to import monstrously dangerous radioactive materials to create an atomic disaster. The miserably maintained reactor facility at Indian Point near New York City alone could provide a catastrophe to thoroughly satisfy a vicious terrorist group and easily murder millions and that would only require marginal ingenuity with generally available explosives. And there are no possible plans for being able to evacuate the New York City area to save lives. There are storage pools throughout the USA containing tons of highly lethal radioactive material that could disable and make unlivable areas as large as an entire state. To believe that resolved terrorists do not know the potentials of this is to be totally naive.
The Fukushima incident, just one facility gone terribly wrong, has changed the entire energy ecology of Japan. There are many facilities of the same design now operative in the USA and they are low hanging fruit for any group of malignant fundamentalist terrorists with no regard for human life.



aghogday
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07 Jun 2011, 11:32 pm

Sand wrote:
As the recent tragedy at Fukushima has clearly demonstrated it takes only a bad accident at a badly designed and poorly maintained atomic power plant to destroy huge areas of a country. There is no need to import monstrously dangerous radioactive materials to create an atomic disaster. The miserably maintained reactor facility at Indian Point near New York City alone could provide a catastrophe to thoroughly satisfy a vicious terrorist group and easily murder millions and that would only require marginal ingenuity with generally available explosives. And there are no possible plans for being able to evacuate the New York City area to save lives. There are storage pools throughout the USA containing tons of highly lethal radioactive material that could disable and make unlivable areas as large as an entire state. To believe that resolved terrorists do not know the potentials of this is to be totally naive.
The Fukushima incident, just one facility gone terribly wrong, has changed the entire energy ecology of Japan. There are many facilities of the same design now operative in the USA and they are low hanging fruit for any group of malignant fundamentalist terrorists with no regard for human life.


Another study released from Harvard this week: The US-Russia Joint Threat Assessment on Nuclear Terrorism, raises the concern that terrorists may use the vulnerabilities seen from the Fukushima incident to rewaken plans for future attacks on Nuclear Power Plants.

This article is very comprehensive in explaining all of the nuclear threats, those that pose the greatest risks, and what the plan is to prevent these attacks from occurring.

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/Joint-Threat-Assessment%20ENG%2027%20May%202011.pdf



ruveyn
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08 Jun 2011, 7:13 am

Our greatest danger is conventional attack on infra-structure. C4 can bring down power lines. Trucks loaded with C4 blowing up on bridges and in tunnels. Poisoning the water supply.

My greatest nightmare is Achmed, Faisal, Ibrihim and Mahmood driving a truck through the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour, uttering Allah hu akbar and setting off the charge.

ruveyn



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08 Jun 2011, 8:23 am

ruveyn wrote:
Our greatest danger is conventional attack on infra-structure. C4 can bring down power lines. Trucks loaded with C4 blowing up on bridges and in tunnels. Poisoning the water supply.

My greatest nightmare is Achmed, Faisal, Ibrihim and Mahmood driving a truck through the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour, uttering Allah hu akbar and setting off the charge.

ruveyn


How long does the Lincoln Tunnel take at Rush hour these days?

We always passed through at off times and to my young time sense free self it seemed a monoxide eternity.



JeremyNJ1984
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08 Jun 2011, 9:14 am

Philologos wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Our greatest danger is conventional attack on infra-structure. C4 can bring down power lines. Trucks loaded with C4 blowing up on bridges and in tunnels. Poisoning the water supply.

My greatest nightmare is Achmed, Faisal, Ibrihim and Mahmood driving a truck through the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour, uttering Allah hu akbar and setting off the charge.

ruveyn


How long does the Lincoln Tunnel take at Rush hour these days?

We always passed through at off times and to my young time sense free self it seemed a monoxide eternity.


Going through the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour...about 45 minutes.



Chummy
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08 Jun 2011, 9:43 am

The world today is too unstable and factionalized to not have an NBC attack occur within the next 50 years. Iran has nukes and it already declared too many times that they are not in it for peace purposes. So that's your best bet. Then, you have North Korea and who knows when they're gona use their stuff.

Even today there is a bomb capable of destroying all life on earth, but what's the point of using it if there is nothing left afterwards. Conventional attacks are also very terrifying as ruveyn pointed out. There are many bombs and rockets that are very devestating even that they are not nuclear.



ruveyn
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08 Jun 2011, 11:32 am

Chummy wrote:
The world today is too unstable and factionalized to not have an NBC attack occur within the next 50 years. Iran has nukes and it already declared too many times that they are not in it for peace purposes. So that's your best bet. Then, you have North Korea and who knows when they're gona use their stuff.

Even today there is a bomb capable of destroying all life on earth, but what's the point of using it if there is nothing left afterwards. Conventional attacks are also very terrifying as ruveyn pointed out. There are many bombs and rockets that are very devestating even that they are not nuclear.


Tactoca; nukes (fission bombs) are not sufficient to destroy life on Earth. But they sure can make life on Earth unpleasant.

ruveyn



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10 Jun 2011, 8:07 am

Saw this article today about Iran planning for the day after a nuclear test. I have to imagine if Iran does follow through and test nuclear devices, several other MiddleEastern countries will develop nuclear weapons themselves, making the world less safe.

"Iran Anticipates the Day After Nuclear Test"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/ ... lear-test/

Excerpt:

Quote:
Though the evidence that Iran is working on building a nuclear bomb is overwhelming, apologists for the Islamist regime have accepted its cover story that their program is only aimed at peaceful civil uses of the technology. But apparently a website run by the country’s Revolutionary Guard deviated from the party line on April 24.

The Guardian’s security blog reports that on that date Gerdab, the Guard’s website ran a piece anticipating what the day after the successful explosion of an Iranian bomb would be like. The Guardian translation of the piece fairly bubbles with excitement about the happiness in Iran and the “shock and despair” in Israel. The point of the piece is to show that life will go on normally in Iran but that people there will have a “sparkle” in their eyes.

Lest anyone think the hypothetical piece is pure science fiction, the news about the article came the same week that Iran announced that it would triple their production of enriched uranium.

The notion of normal life in post-nuclear Iran ought to focus the attention of those in the West on the consequences of allowing Tehran to fulfill its ambitions. The greatest danger of a nuclear Iran is not so much the possibility of them actually launching a strike at Israel, though that horrifying scenario can’t be discounted. Rather, it is that the existence of this “Shia Bomb” as the Guard article calls it, would make Iran a regional superpower. It would also mean that Iran’s terrorist allies; the shaky Assad regime in Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas would suddenly have a nuclear umbrella protecting them. Such a development would give the despot of Damascus and the terrorist groups on Israel’s borders the ability to operate with impunity. That means the “normal” day after the announcement of an Iranian bomb would be one that would bring untold dangers both to Israel and to the West.



ruveyn
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10 Jun 2011, 9:38 am

psychohist wrote:
I have to admit, on September 11, 2001, when all my coworkers were watching the tower fires in shock, I actually greeted the event with relief because it wasn't nuclear. I was like, "hey, let's get back to work, this isn't the big one."

.
\\

The death of a thousand cuts is no less fatal than a major nuclear explosion or release of fissionable material.

Blow up a few tunnels and bridges in New York City and the place is as dead as if it were nuked.

The greatest threat to us is low tech attack on the infrastructure.

ruveyn



psychohist
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10 Jun 2011, 10:10 am

aghogday wrote:
Another study released from Harvard this week: The US-Russia Joint Threat Assessment on Nuclear Terrorism, raises the concern that terrorists may use the vulnerabilities seen from the Fukushima incident to rewaken plans for future attacks on Nuclear Power Plants.

If the terrorists can figure out how to start earthquakes, they don't need to destroy nuclear plants.

ruveyn wrote:
The death of a thousand cuts is no less fatal than a major nuclear explosion or release of fissionable material.

Blow up a few tunnels and bridges in New York City and the place is as dead as if it were nuked.

The greatest threat to us is low tech attack on the infrastructure.

If they could manage such an attack more frequently than once a decade, I'd be more worried. As long as it takes 10,000 years for a thousand cuts to accumulate, not so much.



ruveyn
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10 Jun 2011, 2:24 pm

psychohist wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Another study released from Harvard this week: The US-Russia Joint Threat Assessment on Nuclear Terrorism, raises the concern that terrorists may use the vulnerabilities seen from the Fukushima incident to rewaken plans for future attacks on Nuclear Power Plants.

If the terrorists can figure out how to start earthquakes, they don't need to destroy nuclear plants.

ruveyn wrote:
The death of a thousand cuts is no less fatal than a major nuclear explosion or release of fissionable material.

Blow up a few tunnels and bridges in New York City and the place is as dead as if it were nuked.

The greatest threat to us is low tech attack on the infrastructure.

If they could manage such an attack more frequently than once a decade, I'd be more worried. As long as it takes 10,000 years for a thousand cuts to accumulate, not so much.


And organized lo tech assault on infrastructure could being this country (U.S.A.) down in less than a year.

Think of those HVAC lines going through the woods. Is every tower guarded?

What is to stop a truck full of C4 blowing up in the middle of a major tunnel or bridge?

ruveyn



Sand
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10 Jun 2011, 7:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
psychohist wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Another study released from Harvard this week: The US-Russia Joint Threat Assessment on Nuclear Terrorism, raises the concern that terrorists may use the vulnerabilities seen from the Fukushima incident to rewaken plans for future attacks on Nuclear Power Plants.

If the terrorists can figure out how to start earthquakes, they don't need to destroy nuclear plants.

ruveyn wrote:
The death of a thousand cuts is no less fatal than a major nuclear explosion or release of fissionable material.

Blow up a few tunnels and bridges in New York City and the place is as dead as if it were nuked.

The greatest threat to us is low tech attack on the infrastructure.

If they could manage such an attack more frequently than once a decade, I'd be more worried. As long as it takes 10,000 years for a thousand cuts to accumulate, not so much.


And organized lo tech assault on infrastructure could being this country (U.S.A.) down in less than a year.

Think of those HVAC lines going through the woods. Is every tower guarded?

What is to stop a truck full of C4 blowing up in the middle of a major tunnel or bridge?

ruveyn


Atomic power installations are notoriously vulnerable. The Indian Point reactor is loaded with violations of the fire safety laws and the operators thumb their noses at authorities who demand the violations be fixed.
See http://www.platts.com/RSSFeedDetailedNe ... er/6947237

Penetration of the plant by suicide bombers could endanger the lives of millions in New York City and the panic of even an unsuccessful attack could cause severe damage to the city. Release of radioactivity as with the Japanese reactor could make the city unlivable.