We're f*cked

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ZakFiend
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09 Jun 2011, 12:32 pm

Philologos wrote:

ZakFiend wrote:

You need the population to have a homogenous worldview and understanding of the world, that won't happen if you give people all sorts of freedom to be irresponsible and delude themselves.

.

GOD SAVE US! This is the spirit which will kill us if we can! Uniformitarianism will kill humanity even if homo sap survives.

I don't mean homogeneous worldview in the absolute sense where there is no diversity. I mean that there are many negative perspectives that are _demonstrably false_ that are allowed to exist that cause all sorts of problems in the world.

For instance we allow people in government who DENY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that alone should be alarming, when you have people electing people who believe in magical thinking that is a serious problem.

Subotai
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09 Jun 2011, 12:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Subotai wrote:

Due to gross short sighted negligence human kind is on the verge of destroying life on earth as we know it.

Compared to the Siberian and Deccan Traps we have hardly made a dent.

ruveyn

I'm not necessarily talking only about nuclear weapons. They seem unlikely (hopefully) to be even used.
I'm talking about garbage strewn oceans, species being driven to extinction messing up ecosystems. Millions of years worth of evolution can not be easily replaced.

ruveyn
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09 Jun 2011, 1:44 pm

Subotai wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Subotai wrote:

Due to gross short sighted negligence human kind is on the verge of destroying life on earth as we know it.

Compared to the Siberian and Deccan Traps we have hardly made a dent.

ruveyn

Even with that, the human race can hardly make a scratch. There are multitudes of life forms who live seven miles under the sea in pitch black darkness near hydrothermal vents. There are bacteria that live in lightless caves far from exposure to anything humans can make or do.

There is too much and too varied life on this planet for the human race to destroy. We could probably destroy our own civilization and that has been done many times in the past.

ruveyn

blauSamstag
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09 Jun 2011, 2:15 pm

Look, I don't know what the future holds, but i believe that the answer is more technology, and better technology.

In 100 years we will probably need a lot of seawalls.

And in 100 years, maybe the girlscouts can build a seawall in a week. Who knows.

Mack27
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09 Jun 2011, 2:42 pm

It gets even worse, or better depending on how you look at it. I believe earth will only be the first planet humanity destroys. Just picture seed-ships full of humans slumbering in suspended animation spreading out across the galaxy like destructive spores from the lifeless earth.

aghogday
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09 Jun 2011, 2:56 pm

Put clothes on Chimpanzees, give them amenities, and you will likely have "monkey business". Without the amenities there is not much damage they can do.

Humans are not the problem, the things we have created through collective "intelligence", are the problem. Once monkey business starts it runs it's natural course. This is a revolutionary experiment in nature, because it is the first time "monkeys" have been able to create their own amenities and experiment with themselves. Now we are, to a great extent, "guinea pigs".

What we see of our civilization looks fairly organized, from our narrow view. But, if someone could look objectively down from space, an ant hill would probably make more sense.

Our culture now has a life of it's own; a reflection of billions of varied minds throughout the existence of the species. It's not much different than evolution; as long as our culture allows us to continue to reproduce we survive.

We have never been in control, but it looks more and more like what we have created is gaining control of us.

Sooner or later the Ant hill and/or Beehive is likely to be disturbed. Chaos will ensue, but somekind of order will be restored as long as enough of us survive. There are so many of us it's likely some will, far into the future, but it may be more of a struggle than many of us could imagine.

And for anyone that thinks we have neocortically advanced far beyond our monkey brethern; the recent results of "Weinergate", provides evidence that without the slick amenities, there is not much that separates us from them. Interesting that people are so surprised when they see animal nature come crashing down on us.

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Last edited by aghogday on 09 Jun 2011, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blauSamstag
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09 Jun 2011, 3:06 pm

aghogday wrote:

You read too much science fiction.

ruveyn
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09 Jun 2011, 5:56 pm

Mack27 wrote:

Humans and their technology are incapable of rendering this planet lifeless. If the Siberian and Deccan Traps could not, surely we can't. The amount of energy humans can harness and release is puny compared to natural processes.

ruveyn

Oodain
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09 Jun 2011, 6:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Mack27 wrote:

yet......

there are some "future" technologies that could actually destroy all life on the planet, the grey goo scenario for one.

there is also antimatter, but i doubt we as humans will ever produce enough of it here on earth to do much, it is notoriously expensive and inefficient to make today.

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Sand
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09 Jun 2011, 6:28 pm

Ruveyn is correct, but is it satisfactory that the planet revert to living slime to start the climb back to diversity again through other forms? That gives me no pleasure.

Vexcalibur
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09 Jun 2011, 7:27 pm

Welcome to 1993.

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ruveyn
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09 Jun 2011, 8:09 pm

Oodain wrote:

There has not been a milligram of anti-mater artificially created by humans. It is very had to make. Forget it.

Future technology, by definition, does NOT exist now and there is guarantee it will ever exist.

ruveyn

Oodain
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09 Jun 2011, 8:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Oodain wrote:

all correct, however the major inneficiancy in AM production is actually not a lack of antimatter, but a lack of a reliable, efficient ways of capturing it, even then it would still take thousands of years to make a gram.

there might not be a guranantee but there are some that rest upon a very sound theoretical and experimental data, nano scale machines have been created today, now there is a long way from a molecular motor to a self reproducing type that could result in grey goo.

my point being that even though we cant destroy earth today there is no guarantee for what might happen in the future, so to categorically state that we cant do it as humans would be wrong.

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//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

aghogday
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09 Jun 2011, 8:21 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

aghogday wrote:

You read too much science fiction.

Ever heard of Complexity Science? Some parts of it are controversial, but far from science fiction.

The Jewel of Complex Culture are human beings. We retain a level of instinct in our organic nature that allows us to reorganize and survive after chaos. The instinctual will to survive may trump what may be the inevitable consequence of the complexities of our culture.

Not limited to humans; A roach and a dragonfly are not extremely complex life forms, but, evidently complexity may not be the key to long term survival. I think you mentioned previously that the smart apes will find a way to survive; possible; intelligence has a lot to do with cultural constructs, but is not necessarily correlated to long term survival. That is part of the complex experiment we live in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_systems

http://www.oxfordleadership.com/journal/vol2_issue1/homerdixon.pdf

ruveyn
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09 Jun 2011, 8:25 pm

Oodain wrote:

my point being that even though we cant destroy earth today there is no guarantee for what might happen in the future, so to categorically state that we cant do it as humans would be wrong.

We are all dead in the long run and the Sun will become a Red Giant and burn up the Earth. In the long run everything, including the Cosmos itself is doomed. So what?

ruveyn

Sand
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09 Jun 2011, 8:25 pm

aghogday wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

aghogday wrote:

You read too much science fiction.

Gauging the current behavior of humanity on a scale of intellect capable of survival and concluding that humans will persist is an effort at optimism far beyond my capability.

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