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Are any other Christians here interested in space?

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blunnet
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18 Jun 2011, 4:45 am

Sand wrote:
Since the Bible declares that God created light before he created the Sun Christians may be puzzled by what they discover in space.

Adhocness saves the day.



AnonymousAnonymous
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18 Jun 2011, 7:31 pm

I'm Catholic. Is it too late to join this discussion? :wink:


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pandabear
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18 Jun 2011, 9:27 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
If you travel out far enough, you may come to Heaven. Better bring along a harp, and take some lessons before you go, so that you'll be able to fit in.

But, what if you go out in the wrong direction?


Heaven isn't a location in this material universe, but the heavens are.


Blasphemer!



iamnotaparakeet
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18 Jun 2011, 9:34 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
I'm Catholic. Is it too late to join this discussion? :wink:


Nope, not too late.



iamnotaparakeet
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18 Jun 2011, 9:35 pm

pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
If you travel out far enough, you may come to Heaven. Better bring along a harp, and take some lessons before you go, so that you'll be able to fit in.

But, what if you go out in the wrong direction?


Heaven isn't a location in this material universe, but the heavens are.


Blasphemer!


Prove it.



ruveyn
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19 Jun 2011, 7:44 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Doesn't the word rakiyah derive from another word which means to stamp out, spread out, expand?


As in stamping out a coin cause a lump of metal to spread out or expand. The rakiyah is an expanse (of what?). The rakiyah of ancient Hebrew cosmology is like a transparent roof that separates the Waters below from the Waters above. In a sense, the Hebrew cosmology likens the world to inside of a hollow glass container sitting at the bottom of an aquarium. From a physical point of view we know know this is nonsense. But in those days of the late bronze age no one had telescopes and there was little in the way of science mathematics to understand how the heavens were.

ruveyn



pandabear
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19 Jun 2011, 8:22 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
If you travel out far enough, you may come to Heaven. Better bring along a harp, and take some lessons before you go, so that you'll be able to fit in.

But, what if you go out in the wrong direction?


Heaven isn't a location in this material universe, but the heavens are.


Blasphemer!


Prove it.


So, where is Heaven, if not in the material universe? In some sort of imaginary universe?



Sand
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19 Jun 2011, 9:50 am

pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
If you travel out far enough, you may come to Heaven. Better bring along a harp, and take some lessons before you go, so that you'll be able to fit in.

But, what if you go out in the wrong direction?


Heaven isn't a location in this material universe, but the heavens are.


Blasphemer!


Prove it.


So, where is Heaven, if not in the material universe? In some sort of imaginary universe?


It adjoins Oz.



ruveyn
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19 Jun 2011, 10:22 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Prove it.


proofs are only possible in mathematics. Everywhere else there is empirical corroberation.

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2011, 2:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Prove it.


proofs are only possible in mathematics. Everywhere else there is empirical corroberation.

ruveyn


One is a lesser degree of the other.



iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2011, 2:21 pm

Sand wrote:
pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
pandabear wrote:
If you travel out far enough, you may come to Heaven. Better bring along a harp, and take some lessons before you go, so that you'll be able to fit in.

But, what if you go out in the wrong direction?


Heaven isn't a location in this material universe, but the heavens are.


Blasphemer!


Prove it.


So, where is Heaven, if not in the material universe? In some sort of imaginary universe?


It adjoins Oz.


Heaven's not in Australia either. Entirely different universe, if anything material.



pandabear
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19 Jun 2011, 2:22 pm

Well, some people like Australia.



iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2011, 2:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Doesn't the word rakiyah derive from another word which means to stamp out, spread out, expand?


As in stamping out a coin cause a lump of metal to spread out or expand. The rakiyah is an expanse (of what?). The rakiyah of ancient Hebrew cosmology is like a transparent roof that separates the Waters below from the Waters above. In a sense, the Hebrew cosmology likens the world to inside of a hollow glass container sitting at the bottom of an aquarium. From a physical point of view we know know this is nonsense. But in those days of the late bronze age no one had telescopes and there was little in the way of science mathematics to understand how the heavens were.

ruveyn


Although the scientific understanding of their day was pretty meager, if any of the Bible is inspired by God omniscient then it may convey some knowledge that would have otherwise been impossible to know by those who scribed it otherwise. Such as the expansion of hyperspace. Personally, I've started to think that the "waters above" may be more figurative in that they would be like a sea later on. If "the heavens" in Revelation 12:12 refer to space rather than Heaven, then perhaps when the end of time is actually here then humankind will have migrated somewhat outward into space by then, the tribulation only affecting the inhabitants of Earth. I know you don't accept the new testament and I don't intend to offend you, but that is part of the basis of my thoughts on the matter.



iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2011, 2:35 pm

pandabear wrote:
Well, some people like Australia.


From what I've read about it, Australia is rather nice. I wish I could bring my birds there to see where their ancestors were from a century ago, but there are laws regarding the transport of "foreign" creatures unfortunately.



ruveyn
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19 Jun 2011, 3:10 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Prove it.


proofs are only possible in mathematics. Everywhere else there is empirical corroberation.

ruveyn


One is a lesser degree of the other.


Wrong. Deductive proof is absolute and that is exactly what we do not have in physical science. All we can do there is formulate hypotheses based on observation and verify or falsify the hypotheses by empirical means.

ruveyn



Sand
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19 Jun 2011, 5:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Prove it.


proofs are only possible in mathematics. Everywhere else there is empirical corroberation.

ruveyn


One is a lesser degree of the other.


Wrong. Deductive proof is absolute and that is exactly what we do not have in physical science. All we can do there is formulate hypotheses based on observation and verify or falsify the hypotheses by empirical means.

ruveyn


Ruveyn is absolutely correct in this and it highlights the total difference between religion, which deals in assumed absolutes, and science which is always searching for closer approaches to observed reality.