Raising the Debt Ceiling

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Doesn't change the fact from a US Law standpoint the war in Libya is illegal.

It's really funny that so many adherents to this social and economic philosophy claim to be evangelical Christians. I just can't seem to imagine Christ as being so hard hearted and callous.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Payroll taxes is not what I cited. I was talking about INCOME tax. FICA/Medicare is not funded by the income tax.




When the economy crashes, the party is over for everyone. This has nothing to do with humanity/inhumanity. It's just the reality of life.

You can have the best intentions in the world, but if you can't pay for it, it means nothing.



Agreed on both counts. The parties that "really matter" get funded no matter what. Everyone else can twist in the wind.

Food for thought....

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... easy-steps

I think America needs to start looking out for America.
1) Militarily - Sorry, we can't police the world anymore. If Mr. Dictator across the sea is killing people, that is terrible but not our responsibility. We should help if we can, but right now we can't.
2) Economically - Time for NAFTA and all other agreements that favor foreign countries to go. We need some protectionist policies for a change. I wouldn't mind if corporations paid no taxes at all, as long as they kept ALL their jobs stateside, including their headquarters and call centers. If they want to build their products or components elsewhere, let them pay through the nose to bring it into the country.

It's a matter of having humane priorities. Japan has twice as much debt as the US relative to GDP and it hasn't become an inhumane third world banana republic s**thole where people are left to starve in the streets just yet. If their politicians insisted on immediately paying off the debt they would become just that. I'm not saying we should aim to be in the situation Japan is in, just that some perspective is needed. Our debt-to-GDP ratio was also higher than it is now during the peak of WWII. Should we have insisted on immediately balancing the budget then and just let the Nazi's take over the whole freaking world?

Last edited by marshall on 13 Jul 2011, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am initially inclined to agree on all this, but protectionism has it's own potentially disastrous consequences in this day and age. The reality is multinational corporations now hold the entire world by the balls. There's also the fact that cheap imports have allowed the US to consume at the expense of low wages in developing nations. We may face a rising cost of living and a declining material wealth no matter what. The best idea is to accept this and find a humane way to deal with it. Extreme liassez-faire policy with flat taxes and zero redistribution will force the poor into destitute living conditions in a situation like this.

We need look no farther back than Smoot Hawley to see the failure of protectionism in the face of economic collapse.

But there is no question in my mind that the United States has created a political environment in which control of capital equates to control of the law making and policy envrionment. There has been little in the way of effective action to curb the activities of PACs, the use of soft money, or the absolute necessity for most legislators to align themselves with major funders. Money shapes public opinion, money lobbies legislators and money gets the tax, fiscal and trade frameworks that it wants.

Is this related to my post about the cost of Libya? If so, it has nothing to do with my statement.

Well, it is a matter of priorities and accepting consequences.

Japan is a completely different culture, but they will have radiation poisoning for the next couple generations over Fukashima and the inability to be honest about the radiation contamination/exposure. I'm not advocating getting rid of Social Security or Medicare (neither are the Republicans), but it is clear that they must be overhauled in such a way to protect those in no position to deal with any change (current retirees) but the rest of us (40ish and younger) must accept that we will have a different program in order to fix what's broken. A lot of "social programs" are bureaucratic wastes that help way too few for the $$$ invested. Having worked as a case manager, I can testify that most programs do nothing but waste taxpayer money on multiple redundancies and paperwork requirements...leaving little time or money for the people you supposedly are trying to help.

If the economy collapses, you must shut down everything that is not an absolute necessity. You'd not disband the military, but you'd have to halt every military operation not absolutely necessary to domestic security. Hence why we got involved in WWII when we were in bad economic shape.

People want to think we can just cut a few spending items and raise taxes and everything will work itself out. That's beyond naive. The economy (and government) is broken...perhaps beyond repair, and the proposed "fixes" are not going to come close to solving the problems.

I think before the government cuts things that some people rely on they should cut their own pay.

Don't hold your breath for that to happen.

ruveyn

In regarding zerOnetgain's assertion that the party will be over for everyone - well, no it won't. It won't be the rich starving in the street. And I'll bet the Goddamn Republicans will still give them their tax cuts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

True and false.

If the poop hits the fan, you will see the wealthy (by and large) flee America like rats from a sinking ship. They know what tends to come next, and they want to be in some banana republic where their hired goons will keep any danger far at bay.

I always tell people who are into survivalism to try and keep tabs on the wealthy/powerful in your area. If they start drilling water wells, building shelters/panic rooms, hiring armed thugs (Blackwater, etc.) to patrol their neighborhoods regularly, of if they start packing to leave town in a hurry....GUESS WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN.

^Unless one is nearly as well-off as those people, one won't be living in their community.

Well, yes and no.

People know who the well-to-do are in their area. Some people keep eyes and ears open, and talk gets about.

Lots of wealthy people in one state (Texas, if I recall correctly), are having water wells dug on their properties when they have perfectly good city water to their properties. The scuttlebutt was that they are looking to stockpile and be ready for a coming "crisis."

Watch and listen and you can find sources who do have access to the people you want to watch, and their actions are noticed.