Miracle in Norway

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Hearing about this guy makes me wonder if the whole Fight Club factor is coming into play - ie. that lots of shunned dead-end males of all creeds and colors who can't make their mark on history in an honest way will be trying to make their anger heard with bullets, bombs, etc.. Radical Islam so far has been the dominant facilitator of this kind of thing with its promises and social condoning of such actions but who knows, maybe enough helplessness and being ignored in general can trigger this for some.

This sort of thing does not happen often in the U.S.. The last OKC type of terrorist act was in 1995. The business in Norway is very reminiscent of the OKC bombing.

ruveyn

Huh?

Doesn't the US have a mass shooting by a non-Muslim just about every year? Why is this so shocking?

The last one in the U.S. to be so successful in its purpose (i.e., to have such a high casualty count) happened in 1995, yes. But that is not to say that right wing fringers haven't been active since then. Two were killed and 111 were injured in the bombing that took place the following year at the Summer Olympics in Atlanta, for which Eric Rudolph was later convicted. I lived near there at the time, so I remember it all very clearly-- the bombing, Rudolph fleeing into the woods in North Carolina, and ultimately his capture. Rudolph was also responsible for three other bombings, two of them abortion clinics. His other bombings resulted in the death of a policeman in Alabama and six other injuries.

And there've been more recent attempts, too, like the foiled MLK Day Parade bombing attempt in Spokane, Washington, in January this year. That one resulted in the arrest of Kevin William Harpham, who apparently has ties to the white supremacist group known as the National Alliance. That one was thankfully stopped when some sharp-eyed civilians reported the suspicious looking backpack which contained the bomb sitting unattended near the parade route.

Why is it that Ruveyn's definition of terrorists seems to be "bombs!"? This very year if I remember correctly a senator and many others were shot by a deranged lunatic, he was as much of a terrorist as this guy. If perhaps less successful.

[img][800:1018]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QOb3RUaBiIY/TisASYopQqI/AAAAAAAADmA/9HCB5pwYQZ8/s1600/oslo.jpg[/img]

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/scienceb ... ged_mi.php

Rrrrrriiight.... because white Christian terrorists and Islamic terrorist occur in a pretty close to even ratio - we're really all just to racist to admit it.

True, we should all cut the PC crap out and admit the majority of terrorist attacks in the last few decades have been done by Muslims rather than just being like "But what about the KKK and Christian extremists who kill abortion doctors?". But he still has a point about jumping to conclusions. It's not that "Ohhhh their damn religion is evil" but that the Middle East is very unstable and that region of course is going to breed more religious extremism. I don't understand why people can't acknowledge this without fearing that they might be bigots for doing so.

I don't know, Islam could be inherently a religion of violence but from what I know so far it's pretty much like Christianity. Either way, the political instability definitely adds a shedload of insult to injury and extremism is undeniably more prevalent than it would've been otherwise.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 23 Jul 2011, 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Is the ratio difference because intrinsic differences between the religions or intrinsic differences between the quality of life of the countries?

Who said you were racist?

I agree that the groups who have control are sheisters. Just watching Benjamin Netanyahu interviewed by Mike Huckabee and even Netanyahu admits, most of these people want freedom. Unfortunately with the current power structures you have the have nots who are pushed into the corner and - when life has no purpose and they're feeling like they're disgraces to Allah or aren't doing well in his eyes, the suicide bombing concept looks like as much a golden ticket as the financially ruined dad trying to stage a suicide to look like an accident for his family to get his life insurance. Obviously its not always like that, plenty of people are just that propaghandized, but overall the idea is that these people want freedom but are being muscled down by people who have more of a penchant for violence than they do.

As for Islam, for as many people as I've talked to who have read the Koran, they admit - its a warrior religion. It was built at a place and time in history where empire building was a desired thing and where everyone was practicing it. Islam at that point in history was an alpha meme. For those who have tamed it, they try to phrase all of the spiritual warfare in an internal or abstract sense where they are able to treat it more like Christians currently treat Christianity.

Yes, regional instability makes things harder but, at the same time, the Sunni/Shiite thing has been a big part of it, for those who really take it seriously they have promises of death to apostates (where Christianity just promises nothing in the hereafter for non fruit-bearing trees), you see where in the middle ages that star chamber court, Torquemada, and the behavior of the Jesuits had nothing to do with the bible where as with secular/tamed Islam its a similar thing - a modernized reinterpretation.

I'm not saying they can't do it but, lyrically and for what's actually put down in print, it is more difficult for Muslims to take imperialism out of their religion than it is for Christians (and for the Jews obviously its a given - you're either in or your out).


Here's an even better question. Before the turn of the second century the Muslims were leading everyone in science. What happened to that? To the best I can fathom they started finding, via science, similar things about their theism to what people are finding today, and from that they came to see scientific progress as a thing of the devil. The pace of discovery must have happened quickly for them because they snapped shut on it hard and fast to not move forward an inch until the modern era when oil came onto the scene as a resource. True, the Turks were a bit different, they had an empire, being Persian they may not have cared about the Arabs much and in a sense preferred to keep their far regions in the dark, but overall you see where the Muslims had rapid advancements for a period of time and then - somewhere along the line - those advancements were erased from existence. Religious backlash in this case would make the most sense.

Indeed, for a while there Australia had the largest death toll by a rampage killer. Ruveyn you really should do your research before posting such crap. What is going on in Afghanistan and Iraq is pretty much a civil war, and not a random set of killings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Oh and surprise surprise he was religious, and extremely right wing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-24/suspect-admits-responsibility/2807758

@Vex

I wonder if you would be so eager to publish political cartoons if the attack was carried out by the Red Army Faction or the RF? Your posts seem to have a self-satisfaction about them that leaves me cold.

@Ruveyn

Your OP nearly caused me to quit this website, the words too soon are perhaps lost on the both of you.

IMO, I am a paid up member of a labor party, I date a migrant and could give two s**ts about this chaps politics. He is a murderer and a bigot.

Strangely how all massive slaughters in WWII, not to mention the crusades, genocide towards the Native Americans and so much more were done by non Muslims (not to mention Balkan wars and massive slaughters in nazi concentration camps) and no one is surprised when they don't do any further crap.

Last edited by Booyakasha on 24 Jul 2011, 5:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

Like how hard is it?

I have questions about the bible and such, but even the "Lord" set murder on the list of things you shouldnt do for your own good.

seems right. We have plenty of food, so we dont need to eat each other anymore to preserve the species.

I mean really.

In the last sixty years chronic slaughter (other than war by a nation state) has been a mostly Muslim (but not exclusively Muslim) franchise. It is not done too much in the West these days.

Historically there has always been slaughter, the purging of the hive, the thinning of the herd. It happens seldom in the West these days, but, as you point out, this was not always the case.

ruveyn

I agree that lately such instances are increasing on the Muslim side, but I'll have to say that I am acquainted with the purges done by Catholic (Croats) to the Orthodox (Serbs) in their concentration camps followed by the combined Serbian and Croat brain farts performed 20 years ago, again not of Muslim making (although they have participated in it in Bosnia). Of course Balkans can hardly be considered a part of western Europe, still I think both sides (Christian and Muslim) have shown to be able of doing enormous cruelties over the past two millenniums. Judging by the right wing tendencies in my country towards the everyone who isn't them (oh, what a privilege to be born here! ), it isn't over yet.

Check your history, the Muslims committed lots of atrocities in the middle ages from the 7th century Islamic conquests to the fall of the Ottoman empire in 1918, to the Moro warriors in the Philippines, The Muslim SS commandos from the Balkans that fought for Hitler to the end and died in the final siege of Berlin, the Muslims trying to massacre the Israelis in 1948, 1951, 1967, 1972, plus all the various attempts Saddam Hussein made and Iran is working on, there's various religious purges and various terrorist attacks. Or how about the honor killing of family members? That's a Muslim tradition too.