I see a lot of Christian haters on this forum.

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nor does any religious person have any idea if what they are experiencing is a figment of the social construct and their brains or if it is an actual deity,

True, but you seem to be ignoring the possibilities of a respectful dialogue.


I've seen this exact argument made by a feminist about feminism. A feminist couldn't possibly say something sexist, since by definition if she says something sexist then she's not a feminist.

I tend to go along with C. S. Lewis (a famous Christian writer), who said that it may very well be true that someone who does something unchristian may not really be one, it's more useful to say that they're a bad Christian than a non-christian.


+1


I can't speak for other religions, but Christianity is quite explicitly based on love.

if your religion or lack thereof makes you a better person, then it should be supported by all, because thats all that matters at the end of the day.

the problem is that there are many who view that more of ____________(NameTheReligionYouHate) we have, the more bad things we'll have in the world. So to minimize those bad things, you have to treat it and its irrationalities at its source, and defeat that religion(be it theism, atheism, political, cultural, or social religions alike.)... Many militant religionists cannot be happy for another's moral person's advancement, especially if that person is of a rivaling belief. I can point out to some methodist friends all of the wealth thats not at the expense of a great family life that many mormons have and they'll fine some way to delegitimize it, or, you see some christian on here post about something powerful from the scriptures that moved them towards some act of goodness, and you'll have some atheist trying to undermine it or discredit or flat out put them down.

If goodness is to prevail, all religious practitioners need to champion it, including atheists. We can debate what constitutes goodness, but im sure we can all agree in principle, no matter how you define the word.

I am not talking about what they say (propaganda), I am talking about what its written and what they do. They talk about love, and say God is all love (which is true, by the way), but then the same God that is all love will punish you, will let you burn in hell, will not let you enter in His kingdom if you fo not behave a certain way. How is that NOT being based in fear? People is always afraid if displeasing that tempered God.

Some varieties of Christianity are obnoxious. Particular those sects who make a strong effort to convert outsiders to their peculiar superstitions. On the other hand there are quiet well behaved Christian sects and churches. The Quakers, the Amish for example. They do not bother anyone and very few bother or dislike them.

Christians who practice their religion privately and quietly and have good manners and treat all they meet with courtesy should have no trouble from anyone.

Christians who understand that their religious peculiarities must under no circumstances be injected into the public political discourse should have no trouble with anyone. Public policy and religion (ALL religion) should be strongly separated. What we need in public doings are good manners. Keep your God out of the public doings.

ruveyn

I dislike religion full stop, and that because it implies the organisation of belief, everyone follow the selected doctrine, or you do not belong in the club.

But there's recorded history, look at it and see the evils that religion committed, I want no part of that and apologies made now do not soothe the people offended back then. apologies after the fact, like centuries after are just hollow words made by people who want to do something for political reasons, not conscience.

But I have no problem with people who have belief, as long as that belief harms none.

But I do find it kind of ironic that the troubles we are facing in the world today, all come from religions built up around the same deity, the Abrahamic three fighting amongst themselves and that fighting affecting almost the rest of the world.

But religion being organisation of belief, one has to ask who does that organisation of belief serve, for it certainly does not serve the deity, if the deity existed or exists, could it be churches are the problem not the believers ?

"I see a lot of Christian haters on this forum."

This forum is a temple of hatred of all kinds.
Christianity is but one of the many targets.

Hatred? Nah. Annoyance is closer.

ruveyn

I dislike organized religion because I don't want anyone telling me what to think. Also, the views of organized religions tend to be mostly unchanging, and my own spiritual outlook is evolving, so even if I found an organization that fit all my present beliefs it would only be temporary.

The people who have that image are not getting their information direct. Forget the propaganda from both sides.

Assuming that there is a god, of course.

I've read about so much hate and genocide Christians did, especially in my country that it makes me ashamed to be born here.

Cue - Nazi concentration camps that my fellow Catholics opened in WWII where they tried to exterminate the Serbs (the orthodox) and in which Catholic Church here participated to a such degree that there were friars called "Brother Devils".

Jasenovac Concentration Camp clicky

Brother Devil clicky

Church Blessing clicky

The plan was to kill the third, to convert the third and to expel the third of the Serbian population. They managed to exterminate somewhere between 100 000 and 700 000 people solely because they weren't Catholics.

It is enough to look at Christian history outside my country as well - from the slaughtering of Hypatia, the crusades, the Borgias, prosecutions of the Jews and the witches and the Indians, slavery etc etc.

He says it so much better than me:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6DI37bK6I[/youtube]

Last edited by Booyakasha on 30 Jul 2011, 2:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

I am sure that a lot of the locals of your country hate Christians more than any WP users.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 30 Jul 2011, 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You don't have to hate Christians to see their own hatred of others.

So these particular Christians aren't really Christ-like, wouldn't you say? So it's not really Christians that you hate. Those who "play the game," so to speak, really just amount to fakes. Is that, in essence your view?

My take on it is this: Nobody is perfect. Christians accept this and, hopefully, try to become better people through following Christ's teachings, though more importantly it's really just the faith thing. That doesn't make us "mature" people, and this is where much of the misunderstanding comes. A more mature, experienced Christian gets the point, but that doesn't mean he didn't make a LOT of mistakes and learn a lot of hard lessons along the way. That doesn't mean the evils he committed in the name of God are justified. But it's no different than the mistakes anyone can make. If, say for example, an atheist happens to also be an immature jerk, one MIGHT make the mistake that his jerkness is due to atheism and assume, if unreasonably, that all atheists are jerks. It's exactly the same thing. Dawkins-like atheists, I'm convinced, do not best represent the best of atheist-dom. Same goes for WBC and all of Christendom. However, somehow we get blamed as a whole for the failings of that church and people like them.

Similarly, Catholics NOW are not responsible for the atrocities of the inquisitors; yet they're still paying for the sins of their predecessors. Don't make it right, though.

I used to go to church. Believe me, I got the info first hand. And the Bible is always there, with all its contradictions.