Out of touch conservative elitist

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Dox47
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30 Jul 2011, 1:49 am

AceOfSpades wrote:

No, you get arrested if you violate the law AFTER it is enacted. It's that simple. Not only does it violate all common sense, it also causes all sorts of legal headaches and the system can't afford all the strain of witch hunting so many people for not having a crystal ball and realizing that what they're doing at the moment may become illegal so they better stop now. Pretty much everyone in the US during Prohibiton would've been arrested if it was true that violating a law before it even becomes enacted is illegal.

Please don't take this as a derailing attempt, but I do know one area where retroactive lawmaking has been allowed to stand, and that is in extending firearms prohibition to misdemeanor domestic violence convictions. It's really nasty, people who plead guilty to a misdemeanor rather than go through the expense of trial back in the 70's and 80's suddenly found themselves barred for life from gun ownership, even though that's not what they agreed to at the time. To my knowledge, the Supreme Court took the rather bizarre position that a firearms prohibition was not considered a "punishment" but rather an administrative status, and thus was not constrained by laws against retroactive penalties. I've never quite understood it myself, the reasoning makes no sense at all.

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Inuyasha
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30 Jul 2011, 1:51 am

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

marshall wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

many people in other countries would think our poor people are living like kings.

And that's why America is f***ing AWESOME. Our poor people are not starving in the streets like in some third-world s**thole! You and your kind want to change all that. Why do you hate America?

I suggested I would be more sympathetic if they had part time jobs, though in this economy even that is doubtful at this point.

You have 51% of the country not paying income taxes, that is unsustainable.

Less people are paying income taxes because more people are becoming poor, in case you haven't noticed.

And they are becoming poor because they are no longer employed, which is because of the fact businesses aren't hiring, which is because there is nobody knows what the ground rules is going to be from day to day, and the rules can even be used to penalize you retro-actively.

Except that the jump to 49% not paying income tax (in 2008) happened during the Bush administration. So your narrative falls apart.

Quote:

Let's say 5 years ago you smoked a cigarette, then 5 years later a law is passed banning tobacco products. You end up getting arrested because you smoked 5 years before the law was enacted (but had quit before the law was enacted). It may sound like a ridiculous example, but the basic concepts as to what is going on is the same.

That's not how the law works in this country.

Oh really?

http://libertypundits.net/article/is-ob ... gainst-bp/

The proposal was in violation of Article 1 section 9 of the US Constitution, can't remember if Republicans managed to block this or not, I think they did.

Then there was the Chrysler Bondholders.

Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2011, 3:51 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghZjv8AI40[/youtube]

And Republicans accuse liberals of being elitists for prizing intellectuality.
I can not believe the hardheartedness of Republicans. You have to wonder if poor and working class people who vote Republican know how much the leaders of their party holds them in contempt.

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ruveyn
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30 Jul 2011, 8:17 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Ex post facto laws are unconstitutional. Where do you come up with some of your notions?

ruveyn

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30 Jul 2011, 8:18 am

What are we going to do with out of touch lefty liberal extremists?

ruveyn

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30 Jul 2011, 1:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghZjv8AI40[/youtube]

Probably not, as this country club conservative would be ran out of the State if his view that half of his constituents were subhuman got out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50-fimhM-U[/youtube]

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Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2011, 2:40 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghZjv8AI40[/youtube]

I've heard this Republic asswipe calling poor children animals before, and it still pisses me off. Despite his backsliding, trying to explain "what he really meant," he can't escape the fact that he actually considers poor people to be less than human, and thus deserving of inferior treatment.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 3:42 pm

How about instead of calling him an "out of touch conservative elitist" just call him an out of touch elitist? elitism goes beyond party lines.

Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2011, 3:55 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

How about instead of calling him an "out of touch conservative elitist" just call him an out of touch elitist? elitism goes beyond party lines.

As something of a self described liberal elitist myself, I'm just contemptuous of the willfully ignorant and culturally ret*d. But being that, as I've stated time and time again, I don't have a pot to piss in myself, so financial standing has nothing to do with my prejudices.
Conservative elitists tend to despise people who represent an economic underclass, and blame them for being poor, all the while favoring those with more than enough means. Plus, right wing elites often tend to equate race with the object of their scorn, and shun intellectual pursuits as elitist and effete. And yet, they have no problem manipulating the poor with race hatred, religion, and homophobia.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 4:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

How about instead of calling him an "out of touch conservative elitist" just call him an out of touch elitist? elitism goes beyond party lines.

i know what you mean, i just think we should focus on the fact he's an elitist and not on the fact he is a conservative.

Master_Pedant
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30 Jul 2011, 11:45 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

i know what you mean, i just think we should focus on the fact he's an elitist and not on the fact he is a conservative.

His conservatism does matter when assessing his elitism. Regardless of whether the ultimate cause of his elitism is egocentrism coupled with a lack of experience interacting with the jobless and working poor, his elitism is intellectually rationalized by an economic conservative worldview.

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Kraichgauer
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31 Jul 2011, 12:22 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

i know what you mean, i just think we should focus on the fact he's an elitist and not on the fact he is a conservative.

Also, his contempt of the underclass is specifically a trait of the right.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Orwell
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31 Jul 2011, 12:46 am

And it does no one any favors to paint a false equivalence. I'm sick of pretending the two sides are the same, that both are equally at fault and equally unreasonable. That's just not true. The right wing in this country is batshit crazy, the Republicans have always been the fiscally irresponsible ones, they are the ones who loudly cry out in favor of a state policy of torture and preemptive war, they are always the first to want to destroy any successful thing that has been built up by our society's collective efforts and trample the poor and needy. There is no moral equivalence between the left and the right. The right is wrong.

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31 Jul 2011, 12:50 am

Orwell wrote:

Well said.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Master_Pedant
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31 Jul 2011, 12:52 am

Orwell wrote:

I also find it funny that multimillion dollar speechwriters for country club conservatives like to denigrate professors as the "liberal elite". It seems that they hate upper middle class people who work their butts off to make the money they have (which is WELL below that of similarly educated counterparts outside of the academia), yet love super-rich corporate CEOs whose sole "merit" is being able to fleece a company when nobody's there to man the ship. Talk about a perverse value system.

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marshall
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31 Jul 2011, 12:55 pm

Orwell wrote:

I'm also sick of all the whining about those of us opposed to the recent far-right push in the US to "be more even handed". That and asking me to be equally critical of Democrats. *caugh* I'm not a god-damned Democrat, get that through your thick skull! I have no loyalty to any political party and I would be bashing Democrats as well were it not for the fact that the Republicans and Tea Partiers are several times more insane and destructive these days.

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