Yoga: New thing christians can't do

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Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 9:45 pm

AngelRho wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the Apostle Paul had written that it was alright for Christians to eat meat that had been offered to idols, even though said meat had been involved in pagan worship. I think Paul would tell us to go ahead and stretch.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Wrong. Go read your Bible again.

:lol:

OK...seriously...

If I recall correctly, you're talking about one of the letters to the Corinthians. Meat that was offered to idols could also be sold in the market, so it wasn't always a certainty that you were always getting "clean" meat. The Corinthian mindset was basically that they knew they'd been granted salvation, therefore they were free from worrying much about whether their behavior was sinful or not. The trouble is that they professed to be Christians, but they didn't act very Christ-like.

Paul understood that it was difficult to tell someone to abstain from meat offered to idols since so many people were idol worshippers. In order to abstain from meat offered to idols, someone would have to make a point of not associating from idols worshippers at all--which would completely destroy any chance Corinthian Christians would have of evangelizing their neighbors. Paul's solution was "don't ask/don't tell." Christians could eat meat offered to idols as long as they were not aware that the meat was offered to idols. Culturally this would have been seen as a problem since Christians, who are openly opposed to the worship of other gods, would have been seen as insulting those who worshipped other gods by consuming meat "in an unworthy manner." Paul's advice was go ahead and eat meat, don't ask where it came from, and only abstain from meat when someone specifically says that it was offered to idols.

Just what I pretty much said - but shorter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

phil777
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03 Nov 2011, 9:50 pm

For the record, yoga means discipline (of oneself, I wager) and is cognate with the english word "yoke" and the french word "joug". If such is the case, I could understand why Christians can't do that. :roll:

mushroo
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03 Nov 2011, 9:54 pm

"Yoga is a form of physical exercise like pilates or aerobics" is an extremely shallow view of Indian religion. Many of the great Yogis never did a "downward facing dog" pose in their lives!

I personally am pan-theistic and enjoy learning from all the belief systems of the world, from Judaism through atheism, but I will not go so far as to say "devoutly religious people can/should freely borrow other culture's beliefs & practices without foresight or consequence."

hyperlexian
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03 Nov 2011, 10:01 pm

mushroo wrote:

+1, yoga is (or at least can be) a serious spiritual practice that may or may not be compatible with Christian beliefs. I think that any highly-religious person should give serious contemplation before incorporating other religion's rituals into their own practices willy-nilly.

I am pro-yoga, for the record.

yeah, that's what i learned in university. the pastor is correct in his knowledge, to the extent i understand it. i agree that it is a good idea to be aware of that background.

however, borrowing activities from other religious traditions is nothing new for christianity, so i don't know why the pastor is all bunched up about this particular thing. but his opinion seems quite reasonable to me.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 10:16 pm

The fact remains, I doubt that anyone other than practitioners of Hinduism are taking part in Hindu spiritualism by doing yoga. So that makes him as much a crackpot as the fundies he claims he has no part of.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

hyperlexian
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03 Nov 2011, 10:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

if i go to church and pray, am i doing a christian act even though i am an atheist?

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puddingmouse
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03 Nov 2011, 10:32 pm

His opinion is reasonable from a mainstream Christian point of view. He sounds very self-righteous and not like someone I would like to meet, but he is right about the teachings of his faith.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 10:33 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

if i go to church and pray, am i doing a christian act even though i am an atheist?

Probably not.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 10:35 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

His opinion is reasonable from a mainstream Christian point of view. He sounds very self-righteous and not like someone I would like to meet, but he is right about the teachings of his faith.

How so? I belong to a mainline denomination, and I've never heard of anything so legalistic from our pulpits.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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03 Nov 2011, 10:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

His opinion is reasonable from a mainstream Christian point of view. He sounds very self-righteous and not like someone I would like to meet, but he is right about the teachings of his faith.

How so? I belong to a mainline denomination, and I've never heard of anything so legalistic from our pulpits.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Probably because your ministers have more important things to talk about than the evils of yoga. I'm sure if you asked some of them what their opinions on the matter were, they would agree that yoga is incompatible with Christianity when you consider the philosophy that underpins it. The fact that hardly any yoga practitioners in the West understand the philosophy behind yoga does not alter this fact.

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mushroo
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03 Nov 2011, 10:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I assume by "fact" you actually mean "opinion."

I generally agree with you that a moderately-religious person can occasionally participate in the customs of other religions/religious cultures without actually threatening their religious identity, for example I can eat matzo without becoming Jewish, or sing a Christmas carol without becoming Christian.

However your claim that "yoga is unrelated to Hindu spiritualism" is highly suspect. The term "Yoga" is often used in the West referring to a set of stretching exercises or "asanas." This is technically "hatha yoga" which is just one element of the larger yoga practice.

I personally am pro-yoga (Hindu origins), pro-meditation (Buddhist origins), pro-rosary (Christian origins) etc. but I am not so naive as to think these practices are belief-neutral. The literal historical origin of the word "yoga" is to overcome attachment to the Self and "yoke" one's spirit to Lord Vishnu and the other Hindu deities like an ox is yoked to a cart. Can you see how this might be incompatible with certain Christian beliefs?

An analogy: Imagine that your friendly neighborhood gym or health club started offering a new workout routine consisting of prostrating oneself towards Mecca to improve flexibility and reduce blood pressure. Of course participation in this class does not make one a devout Muslim any more than eating an Easter Egg makes one a Christian. But would a fundamentalist columnist be a "crackpot" to raise questions about whether this "exercise class" is compatible with a devout Christian lifestyle?

Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 10:49 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

His opinion is reasonable from a mainstream Christian point of view. He sounds very self-righteous and not like someone I would like to meet, but he is right about the teachings of his faith.

How so? I belong to a mainline denomination, and I've never heard of anything so legalistic from our pulpits.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I think I know my pastor well enough to know he wouldn't hold stretching against anyone, as long as there isn't a religious dimension to it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

puddingmouse
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03 Nov 2011, 10:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think I know my pastor well enough to know he wouldn't hold stretching against anyone, as long as there isn't a religious dimension to it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Yoga is a religious/spiritual practice. To say that it isn't does it a disservice.

There's a reason that yoga does more to you than generic muscle stretching does. It's specifically designed to do things to your consciousness, like tai chi is.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 10:55 pm

mushroo wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

If prostrating yourself toward Mecca reduced blood pressure, I'd have no problem with anyone doing it. Because no one, other than Muslims, would be taking part in Islamic spiritualism. Same with Yoga. I have a friend who is an Episcopalian who does yoga on a regular basis, and I'm pretty certain he isn't worshiping Vishnu, as he's just stretching in order to stay in shape.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2011, 11:00 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think I know my pastor well enough to know he wouldn't hold stretching against anyone, as long as there isn't a religious dimension to it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

It's a religious practice for Hindus, and I absolutely respect their worship. But for us Non-Hindus, even if there is a component to it that enhances your consciousness, there just isn't any sort of spiritual aspect to it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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03 Nov 2011, 11:03 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

The religious right does not allow yoga because it is not a martial art.

they don't allow furren martial arts, either (with the possible exception of Karate, because it was invented by Chuck Norris (that's sarcasm)).

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