Feminism and the disposability of males

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQCb4HdDCE[/youtube]

Seems the phrase actually comes from this much shorter video, my bad.

Seems like I hit a nerve, mar00. Good. I stand by earlier statements that men are worse off than women. Now onto your hateful little insinuation that men act to protect women solely out of some silly ownership ideal:

Men do not rush to women's aid because they are protecting their property (why would they help strange women? do we own all women now?). If you were a man, you'd know all too well what it feels like when you see a woman in distress, we can't even watch it on screen without feeling ill, that's the reason women are so rarely shown to be killed/maimed/injured on screen. I imagine it's similar to the innate response women have when they hear a few month old baby crying. (Men do not generally share this response to babies crying btw).

I somehow find it to be the opposite. On the other hand it is concerned with women - there are very good but forgotten reasons for this and I find men's behaviour regarding the focus on women problems without putting on a stand some of their own rather shameful. That said everything is obviously important I just want to stress this point. Modern feminism raises all sorts of questions but it is only seen in the ugliest light by the general uneducated opinionated and ignorant public. There is a ton of people agitating over various nonsensical claims without even knowing what is there to talk about.

As said I personally find it immature. Feminists do that because there was/is this inequality - this discrimination. The facts are so obvious that men have to invent these colossal interpretations of history and shove it to the face every time when this is irrelevant, they feel personally offended and attacked. Now don't get me wrong - I am talking about basic feministic claims and shallow discussions. Of course comparing is all good in modern discussion over various different matters common to all the people. All the issues men have - to blame it on a feminism - really?

I just have nothing better to do apparently. Use all these little downgrading adjectives all you want. Don't worry I am a man alright.

What has feminism done for the rights of men?

There is nothing shamefull about expressing concern for your own rights when someone else's concerns are raised.

If you feel that men's concerns are largely fabricated that's fine, a lot of women feel the same about feminist concerns. I do not agree when people blame all of men's issues on feminism, but dismissing these men and basically telling them to "suck it up" when they feel disenfranchised is repulsive to me.

Do note that I'm not saying feminism is "evil" or oppressive to men, I'm saying that men face troubles that society is refusing to acknowledge. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to me, I know what happend to me and what happens to other men.

??????? It is incredibly common for women to be killed/maimed/injured on screen. Murder mysteries and horror movies fetishize this. Action movies fetishize men being killed (generally the faceless enemy who gets blown up or shot).

It's easy to find examples of the disposability of both men and women. War treats men as disposable cannon fodder. War also treats (civilian) women as "spoils of war" and disposable. Men have been considered disposable in dangerous jobs (which is why OSHA was created in the US). Women have also been disposable in dangerous yet different jobs (in sweatshops, where so many clothes are made).

The bottom line is that people are considered disposable by other people. This is an ugly facet of human nature but it really doesn't break down into male and female. There are so many examples of disposability for both genders that it makes more sense to attack the idea that humans are disposable rather than trying to make it into a gender war.

Yay OSHA, BTW. In the US it has gone a long way towards making workplaces safer for both men and women.

Last edited by Janissy on 07 Nov 2011, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I didn't mean it as an insult, I genuinely thought you were a woman. Never in a million years would I have thought a man would say that men's natural protective instinct over women came from some kind of warped idea of ownership.

Depends on your view - you can deny, oppose, or corrupt it. Society is obviously complex.
It is shameful to talk about yourself when we are talking about someone else. Once this talk is done then it is only but appropriate to have your own say. For instance - no one is primarily talking about the white people's rights in the US, only the black people in the discussion of rasism (+other obvious constraints). Yet when the main obvious inequality is somewhat resolved it is necessary to raise questions from all the angles.

My dictionary defines disenfranchised as deprived of power. In that case one should see a shrink.
My position is that these matters should be discussed in the background of what is relevant today without taking a face of the one or the other ideology and relentless attacking.
Even though I do not see those problems you are speaking of I do agree that such might exist. My view is that society is basically run by men and thus any issues that might arise are only common to all people but not men in specific. I.e. that men are not discriminated only because they are men. Other than that are only problems a person faces because of gender roles/stereotyping which messes all of us up - that's why I view feminism esentially as the best thing ever.
I will clarify this again - I am a male. That is another thing, the fact that one would assume otherwise makes a strong point.

Exactly!

It is probably more a matter of degree, I've seen a reasonable number of films, I think it's fair to say overall far more men die compared to women.

When women do die, its often a "silent" death, like being thrown off a cliff - the camera doesn't follow her down or zoom in on her face just before she dies etc. It's suggested in the video that non-silent deaths are done off screen, I think that's not too bad a generalisation. When they are done on screen, it's never fully shown, evil serial killer stabs once then camera pans away and you see killer's shadow doing the rest. Meanwhile you can feed a man feet first into a woodchipper without batting an eye.
Seeing the body after fact is not the same either, it doesn't have the same effect, so that is often used to show how violent an end some poor gal met.

Maybe I'm being naive, I believe men value women's safety over their own, because I did, and I still do. I had to _learn_ how to feel anywhere near the same sympathy for my fellow men. I look around, I do believe its true of all non-sociopathic men

I still think that's why violence against women is so tame in the media. I was a great fan of The Shield way back when (10 years, dayum time flies). Of all the heinous things the main character does in that series, this one scene still haunts me to this day:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB2mqhdAs6k[/youtube]

and she asked him to do it!

No way. Every movie I've seen was saturated with imagery of women being abused.

I can think of a few movies in which women were graphically killed or abused on screen, (most of them recent horror films) but in all of them there were far more men killed, and more brutally so.

Saw your edit, let's not get into feminist statistics here, but suffice it to say that those stats are usually one of three things: 1) inflated 2) fabricated 3) the same or worse for men.

Oh my. Then I have nothing further to say - you are seriously delusional. These were taken from a government website.
Sure men were killed women were raped. Depends on genre etc. Now Im just angry with myself not being able to get away from all of this trolling. Aaand here I go.

Lets take a peek at the most obvious lie.

"Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women—more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined."

http://www.batteredmen.com/batemerg.htm

My, my a government website with questionable facts and figures. Say it ain't so. Could it possibly be that those other stats are dodgy too? Products of a toxic ideology with an anti-male agenda.

Please provide concise evidence that those particular statistics were (1) feminist, (2) inflated or (3) fabricated.
Lengthy YouTube opinion pieces do not count - I think we all have better things to do with our time.
You've already made it clear than men die and you're not happy about that so we don't need to go into that in any more detail, thanks.

Check out the site above, they address alot of other DV myths too, not just the injury one.

Partisan, and from 1997.

You made the claim, so you get to do the running about.
I expect to see those statistics dismissed in as concise a manner as you dismissed their publication here.
Think very carefully before you post anything further.