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Litigious
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06 Oct 2006, 5:53 am

Space has a boundary. Why shouldn't time have? And if time has a boundary, things don't come out of "nothing", they just have a boundary in time, like they have in space and like they have a finite mass.


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06 Oct 2006, 6:02 am

Well when I think about it , its impossible for me to understand.

Forget time and space and only consider matter and energy.

Why does energy or matter exsist?

Why is there anything?



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06 Oct 2006, 6:08 am

Litigious wrote:
Space has a boundary. Why shouldn't time have? And if time has a boundary, things don't come out of "nothing", they just have a boundary in time, like they have in space and like they have a finite mass.


I'm not sure space itself has a boundary, except when you take into account time, which it does in at least one direction (the Big Bang).

I personally have a concept of time called "metatime", which encompasses all relative time (including time before the Big Bang). I think of it in appearance as a rather badly and irregularly-woven blanket. You may not get the analogy,

Consider an event like World War 2, and let us assume that most known spacetimes (ie parallel universes) has had World War 2 take place. This would appear to be a big woven "knot" in this blanket, with individual threads coming off it at irregular intervals (say if Mosley got his act together and used the Blackshirts to cause a facist coup in England, or perhaps the Japanese did not bomb Pearl Harbour, but somewhere else, or if the Nazis built the atomic bomb first, and so on).

Each universe's relative spacetime is one of those threads on the blanket.


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TheMachine1
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06 Oct 2006, 6:56 am

Oh check out my crazy ideas from my old thread. Please do not post to it because its
in the General Autism Forum and it should not be.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... eplication



Litigious
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06 Oct 2006, 6:57 am

Space and time are inseparable, we just have hard to get it into our minds, as we are 3-D creatures living in a 4-D universe. We can only "flow" with time, as far as we know, or speed it up by traveling very fast in spacecrafts. Space, time and matter have a common boundary in one "direction", the Big Bang. They also have a common boundary in the age, mass and extension of the universe in this very now. So nothing came out of nothing, everything that is or ever was has a boundary.


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06 Oct 2006, 7:04 am

And Quatermass, I agree with you on your blanket theory as well, that's one that I've had myself for many years. So you do have some things in common with the sour, anarchistic crazy Swede after all. :wink:


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06 Oct 2006, 7:10 am

Litigious wrote:
And Quatermass, I agree with you on your blanket theory as well, that's one that I've had myself for many years. So you do have some things in common with the sour, anarchistic crazy Swede after all. :wink:


Well, to tell truth, I only formulated it a few weeks ago, while trying to come up with a theory of time I could use in some fiction, but it is something I have thought about...


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06 Oct 2006, 8:10 am

snake321 wrote:
They say the universe is forever expanding, our world is less than a grain of sand to the earth in the universe. Is it possible that every atom is in itself a smaller universe, and equally we're an atom on some larger being or thing? That it goes infinately in both directions, this is my theory. Also, it could only make since that there would be life on other worlds, or in other universes. I doubt we're (earthlings) the only life that exists, is it also possible that somewhere maybe a perfect world exists? I find these all to be interesting questions that perhaps we'll never have an answer to.

I've wondered about the above as well,although the physics are a
little over my head.One of my favourite books is The Incredible
Shrinking Man,which builds its story around this theory



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06 Oct 2006, 3:02 pm

snake321 wrote:
This I can say... Dolphins are equally if not possible more intelligent than humans, I have seen the diagrams of the developement of a dolphin's brain next to that of a man's. They even communicate telepathically (we call this sonar). Theyr also known for having an ability to heal sick children. They live in the water..... For all we know they could evolve into our heirs after humanity dies off many years from now. Either they'd evolve onto land or they'd grow gills if this were to happen.

There are many questions about dolphin intelligence as their mental capabilities are not in the same direction as ours and interspecies intelligence is hard to test. Also, they don't communicate telepathically, sonar is sound-based so all they are doing is essentially yelling at each other using weird frequencies. Dolphins are unlikely to take over when we die though, as they have little reason to go back to the surface, we are likely to drive them into extinction, and dolphins are would not make a very technologically innovative species given their weakness in manipulating their environment, due to a lack of usable limbs for that task.



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06 Oct 2006, 6:00 pm

But who is to say that they can't evolve in some different way? Maybe we could never understand how theyr society works, maybe they don't need technology or buildings or machines or anything of that nature.... It could be something waaaaayyyyyy beyond our comprehension.
Though, I have heard theyr reviving old Native American whistling languages in order to talk to dolphins. Interestingly enough also, they can communicate with apes and monkeys now, theyr able to type on keyboards... You could have a conversation online through IM with a monkey :lol:



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06 Oct 2006, 6:01 pm

They probably wouldn't have much of anything intelligent to say though



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06 Oct 2006, 6:55 pm

snake321 wrote:
But who is to say that they can't evolve in some different way? Maybe we could never understand how theyr society works, maybe they don't need technology or buildings or machines or anything of that nature.... It could be something waaaaayyyyyy beyond our comprehension.

In order to have the same type of power and influence that humanity has then technology would be a necessity. Considering that many dolphin species are on the endangered species list, then they cannot really be more evolved than we are. It is unlikely that they could create something way beyond our comprehension given how much we comprehend about our world.



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07 Oct 2006, 7:52 pm

Litigious wrote:
On the other hand there still might be what's called infinite regression. There can, just as snake321 states, be smaller universes "below" and greater universes "above". There can be an infinite number of universes, where every elementary particle in our universe is a universe in itself and our universe is just an elementary particle in a greater universe, and the universes can still have each their own finite mass. I find that a very beautiful thought.


I concurr.


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08 Oct 2006, 4:57 am

Interesting discussion! In the field of magick, especially hermetic such, there is a principle called the Principle of Polarity, postulating that all things in existence are equally positive and negative extensions from a neutral core or they wouldn't exist in the first place. Every argument holds its own counter argument, every statement is its own paradox and so on. This goes well with Newton's third law of forces e.g. and it also goes well with the pretty recent theory in the field of science that every galaxy may contain a massive black hole in its core which very possibly could counter and cancel out the matter by its anti matter on the other side of the event horizon and that this is WHY or HOW matter can exist.
Thinking of it this way, the universe can definitely be eternal in extension since everything would be backed up by an exact counter extension in the opposite end, see.
A practical example: out in space it's impossible to gain momentum in any direction if something isn't thrown with equal force in the opposite. A charge needs a counter charge to build, someone who jumps a springboard.



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08 Oct 2006, 8:03 am

Quatermass wrote:
snake321 wrote:
They say the universe is forever expanding, our world is less than a grain of sand to the earth in the universe. Is it possible that every atom is in itself a smaller universe, and equally we're an atom on some larger being or thing? That it goes infinately in both directions, this is my theory. Also, it could only make since that there would be life on other worlds, or in other universes. I doubt we're (earthlings) the only life that exists, is it also possible that somewhere maybe a perfect world exists? I find these all to be interesting questions that perhaps we'll never have an answer to.


.........

You read one of the "Dark Tower" books, didn't you?


DARK TOWER!! !! !!

I LOVE STEPHEN KING'S BOOKS!! !

I WILL KILL THE CRIMSON KING AND TAKE OVER THE TOWER MYSELF! :twisted:


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Litigious
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08 Oct 2006, 8:51 am

King was much better back in the old days. It's too much details and crap in his newer books. I think he crossed the line somewhere after It or Tommyknockers.


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