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cw10
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23 Dec 2011, 9:48 am

thedaywalker wrote:
if you'd like to stay sepperate from your sandwich you would do better not to eat it.


Perhaps I should have said I'd rather not be a part of my sandwich?



seekingtruth
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31 Dec 2011, 6:40 pm

Hi, I'm a Therevada Buddhist. Nice to meet you all!

I'd like to correct one poster stated that Therevada was comparable to Catholic in Christianity as into rituals, I'm thinking you may be confusing Therevada with Tibetan Buddhism.

Tibetan is much more into rituals and ceremony. One of the main things that keep me in the Therevada tradition is it's down to earthness. No mystics, very few ritual and ceremony. Some chanting but mostly meditation and dharma talks.

I am not a believer in God or Gods as most Therevada Buddhists I know, although it's welcome to have that belief if you have it. No judgement.

I was taught that Siddhartha used God's as a teaching tool because Hindu was the main religion practiced at his time in his area and that was how to relate to the people. The Dalai Lama also teaches that it doesn't matter what mode is used as long as it means something to the person, speaks to the heart to bring them to the understanding of lovingkindness, compassion and clarity. So this would also fit with Siddhartha using Gods to help the people of his time to relate to his teaching, that he didn't need to be caught up in 'correcting' it was more important to get their attention.

Mara is a common teaching described as the embodiment of evil and will be percieved to some as 'the devil' but to many of us it's just an easy word to use to look at the parts that are in all of us that lead us to distraction and/or not kind action.

Karma simply is cause and effect, no punishment or reward attached to it. Very clean cut and why it is appealing to many on the spectrum as well.

Reincarnation is a common belief for Therevada, but we do disolve the "I" or "self" but what is being reincarnated is simply the energy moving forward and on. It goes hand in hand with karma. Negative energy collects with other negative energy while positive energy collects with other positive energy. So with that your energy doesn't stay together like a lump like how a Christian soul is interpreted, there is not "I" or "self" moving on, there is energy moving and splitting as it does. It's really hard to explain, people spend years studying this.

One way it's been described is like blowing a dandelion and all the different ways the seeds scatter and land elsewhere, all with a potential to start a new plant.

Puff said Zen Buddhists seldom believe in reincarnation but I know you've also said to me that Bodhisatva's are a big part. So help me out here, aren't Bodhisatva's dependent on reincarnation to continue rebirth's as their vow is to not accept nibana (Nirvana) until all beings can reach enlightenment? This has me just a little confused.

But for the most part, there are many different sects of Buddhism, some really dive into God's and mystic's while others are very down to earth, something for everyone. But the main thread runs through them all of clarity and lovingkindness and the self sufficient attitude that you don't need to be forgiven or approved of, you have what you need and the truths are within you. And everyone has the seed of goodness that can be developed.

The religion part for me is faith or trust, but not in something other then the emptiness and that the 'all' is nothing and everything and it's our true nature for us to get back to the understanding of.

My favorite difference between Buddhism and a God oriented religion is that there is no punishment and reward system which seperates people in my opinion and causes hierarcy leading to conflict and wars.

Thich Nhat Hanh is a beautiful and brilliant teacher, any of his books would be beneficial to read, love this writing.

But a great book for an overview understanding that I can recommend is: Esential Buddhism, A Complete Guide To Beliefs And Practices by Jack Maguire. It's a good start for anyone interested in getting a 'map' of the vehicles and history of Buddhism and Siddhartha.

I've been on this path for 7 years and just touching the surface.

Peace and metta to you all,
Becca


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puff
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31 Dec 2011, 11:09 pm

seekingtruth wrote:
Reincarnation is a common belief for Therevada, but we do disolve the "I" or "self" but what is being reincarnated is simply the energy moving forward and on. It goes hand in hand with karma. Negative energy collects with other negative energy while positive energy collects with other positive energy. So with that your energy doesn't stay together like a lump like how a Christian soul is interpreted, there is not "I" or "self" moving on, there is energy moving and splitting as it does. It's really hard to explain, people spend years studying this.

One way it's been described is like blowing a dandelion and all the different ways the seeds scatter and land elsewhere, all with a potential to start a new plant.

Puff said Zen Buddhists seldom believe in reincarnation but I know you've also said to me that Bodhisatva's are a big part. So help me out here, aren't Bodhisatva's dependent on reincarnation to continue rebirth's as their vow is to not accept nibana (Nirvana) until all beings can reach enlightenment? This has me just a little confused.


In Zen, no teaching is ultimately true, but any teaching can be used that will help to liberate. Therefore these concepts of reincarnation, Bodhisattvas and enlightenment are only good if they are useful at the time. When emptiness/wholeness is known intimately, these concepts become useless.

My understanding is that Bodhisattva vows to save all beings can only be expressed in this moment, so concepts of past and future are no use. Reincarnation may or may not happen, but it doesn't affect my expression of truth in this moment. Nirvana is now, nowhere else.

I know there's an idea that Bodhisattvas choose to reach buddhahood or not. I haven't seen this to be true. There doesn't seem to be an ability to stay in reincarnation cycles or dissolve them. And to not fully reach buddhahood seems to me to only perpetuate karmic cycles of sorrow (even if minor ones) which does no good for anyone.

Alas, my words fail me in talking about this. I think this is why Zen is so adamant about finding out for yourself. Any other interpretation is just "the finger pointing at the moon; not the moon itself."

There are also many paths to the mountain top, so please don't take my words as anything but wisps of smoke.



seekingtruth
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01 Jan 2012, 12:28 pm

puff wrote:
seekingtruth wrote:
Reincarnation is a common belief for Therevada, but we do disolve the "I" or "self" but what is being reincarnated is simply the energy moving forward and on. It goes hand in hand with karma. Negative energy collects with other negative energy while positive energy collects with other positive energy. So with that your energy doesn't stay together like a lump like how a Christian soul is interpreted, there is not "I" or "self" moving on, there is energy moving and splitting as it does. It's really hard to explain, people spend years studying this.

One way it's been described is like blowing a dandelion and all the different ways the seeds scatter and land elsewhere, all with a potential to start a new plant.

Puff said Zen Buddhists seldom believe in reincarnation but I know you've also said to me that Bodhisatva's are a big part. So help me out here, aren't Bodhisatva's dependent on reincarnation to continue rebirth's as their vow is to not accept nibana (Nirvana) until all beings can reach enlightenment? This has me just a little confused.


In Zen, no teaching is ultimately true, but any teaching can be used that will help to liberate. Therefore these concepts of reincarnation, Bodhisattvas and enlightenment are only good if they are useful at the time. When emptiness/wholeness is known intimately, these concepts become useless.

My understanding is that Bodhisattva vows to save all beings can only be expressed in this moment, so concepts of past and future are no use. Reincarnation may or may not happen, but it doesn't affect my expression of truth in this moment. Nirvana is now, nowhere else.

I know there's an idea that Bodhisattvas choose to reach buddhahood or not. I haven't seen this to be true. There doesn't seem to be an ability to stay in reincarnation cycles or dissolve them. And to not fully reach buddhahood seems to me to only perpetuate karmic cycles of sorrow (even if minor ones) which does no good for anyone.

Alas, my words fail me in talking about this. I think this is why Zen is so adamant about finding out for yourself. Any other interpretation is just "the finger pointing at the moon; not the moon itself."

There are also many paths to the mountain top, so please don't take my words as anything but wisps of smoke.


actually makes sense to me, cleared up some of my 'confusion' regarding Bodhisatva's. As such I understand reincarnation to be such a splitting off of energy that the whole idea of Bodhisatva's comeing back fully didn't match. But if you look at the positive energy collected if you take the Bodhisatva's vow's in this life, this moment to moment, then there is more positive energy to resurface if reincarnation does happen.

And then to me as well is the idea that Bodhisatva's is more of a tool to guide people toward ultimate lovingkindness in general, in this life and not just for future generation help as it's often been described. Where's Pema to clear this up? lol.

But really that does give me a more 'broader view' of the Bodhisatva, so thank you very much for your answer.

I think I'm seeing more of the moon behind the finger now, it's a long but wonderfully pleasant journey :D

This is such a hard thing to put words to I agree. Some of the conversations that I have with Sangha members are just laughable as there just aren't words to get it right. So often times we will just be knowing together and sit in amazement and awe.


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Your Aspie score: 168 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 39 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie