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snapcap
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02 Jan 2012, 12:09 am

Your values are what matters.


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02 Jan 2012, 1:35 am

Depends on what and to whom is in relation to.
Many things matter to me that most likely mean nothing to most other people. A few things matter to most people that also matter to me.
I tend to be fairly basic and natural in my approach to living. Prefering a micro over macro world view.
For me the things that matter the most are my own well being, my loved ones well being and perhaps just as much or more my cats. The cats matter a lot to me.
Somewhere would be spiritual matters but not sure where I place them. My spiritual perspective is still coming into focus.
There are billions of answers to the question: What matters?
This has been part of mine.



Kraichgauer
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02 Jan 2012, 2:14 am

blauSamstag wrote:
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Oh wait, that is what is best in life.

What matters, for me, is not living in fear. everything else falls in line behind that, and I'm unsure of the order.


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I was going to say that.

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AceOfSpades
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02 Jan 2012, 11:56 am

Saturn wrote:
Interesting to hear people's responses to this question.

I tend to think, as others who have replied appear to imply, that an objective interpretation of the question does come against the problem that there doesn't seem to be anything in a depersonalised view of the world that we would call by the name 'matters'. I would be interested in ideas that might suggest that there is objective 'mattering'. Of course, I take it that some religous views of the world would hold that value or 'mattering' is inscribed in the world independently of whether you or I believe this is so. I certainly thought so for many years but in the end was not able to prove it to myself either philosophically or experientially.

I also tend to think that a subjective reading of the question is problematic. While we are all, it appears, more or less orientated to behaving as if some things do matter to us as self-interested individuals e.g. to be full rather than hungry, feeling pleasure rather than pain, and so on, it does not follow that we would categorise these things as 'mattering'. It seems to me that the idea of 'mattering' is one that would transcend sef-interested concerns. I mean, okay, you can be happy, I can be happy, so many people can be healthy, animals can be in pain or not, we can pollute the planet or not, but there is a sense that despite these things appearing to matter to the individuals involved at the time, in the larger scheme of things or at the end of the day, all of this will pass, is cosmically relatively insignificant, and will mean nothing or matter not beyond that very localised sphere of concern.

In my life, I want a sense of mattering that can extend beyond this. Indeed, it matters to me whether there is such a thing.

I tend to think that, philosophically, the problem here is a misunderstanding of language. That is, the term 'matters' in its transcendent sense, only corresponds to an idea rather than to anything that is the case in the world. Some of us, at least, seem to have been conditioned to believe that 'mattering' actually exists in the world, is a real thing, when in fact there is no mattering in the world, only in our heads.

But mattering is real, for me, even if it something that I recognise only through the absence left by all the things that don't matter. But then, this suggests that mattering is just the necessary conceptual counterpart of not mattering, one half of a mutually self-sustaining pair, a way of thinking in language about the world but not actually corresponding to anything actual about that world.

So, philosophically, I can see how the problem dissolves. Can this carry over into my life existentially, though?
I think you're overthinking it. If the grand scheme of things is so grand that it is cosmic, then why should it be worth considering? It's all too vague, distant, and uncertain to be significant. Besides that, it's pointless anyways since we don't have to capacity to tackle the contingencies that such a grand scheme of things present. The idea of mattering isn't that it transcends concerns that pertain to self-interest, but whether or not what matters to us now will still matter in the long run. You're thinking way too big when it comes to the long run though. The "long run" should be short enough to be within reach.

You already know what matters and there's nothing more to it than that. Like you said, it's different for each of us and it's subjective. Which is why I think this question is nothing more than mental masturbation.



Saturn
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02 Jan 2012, 12:54 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
I think you're overthinking it. If the grand scheme of things is so grand that it is cosmic, then why should it be worth considering? It's all too vague, distant, and uncertain to be significant. Besides that, it's pointless anyways since we don't have to capacity to tackle the contingencies that such a grand scheme of things present. The idea of mattering isn't that it transcends concerns that pertain to self-interest, but whether or not what matters to us now will still matter in the long run. You're thinking way too big when it comes to the long run though. The "long run" should be short enough to be within reach.

You already know what matters and there's nothing more to it than that. Like you said, it's different for each of us and it's subjective. Which is why I think this question is nothing more than mental masturbation.


Thank you for a more engaged response than that provided by others.

I am certainly 'thinking it'. I'm not sure I'm 'overthinking it'. It is a question I want an answer to for my own life and thinking seems to be the most obvious way to find that answer. Although I've heard the expression before, I'm not sure what you mean by 'mental masturbation'. Perhaps you mean that it is a kind of energy-activity that will not actually create anything. Perhaps, then, I am not trying to create anything but, rather, trying to dissolve an intellectual problem that doesn't actually exist in the real world.

I think you make a good point about the long run being within reach. Yes, I can see that if a target is beyond the range of what can be reached with the 'instrument' that I am, then there is no use in aiming for that target.

But I'm not sure what does matter to me at the moment and that is perhaps what I am searching for here.



Saturn
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02 Jan 2012, 12:57 pm

snapcap wrote:
Your values are what matters.


What are my values? What are your values?



Saturn
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02 Jan 2012, 12:59 pm

Rewind wrote:
Depends on what and to whom is in relation to.
Many things matter to me that most likely mean nothing to most other people. A few things matter to most people that also matter to me.
I tend to be fairly basic and natural in my approach to living. Prefering a micro over macro world view.
For me the things that matter the most are my own well being, my loved ones well being and perhaps just as much or more my cats. The cats matter a lot to me.
Somewhere would be spiritual matters but not sure where I place them. My spiritual perspective is still coming into focus.
There are billions of answers to the question: What matters?
This has been part of mine.


Thanks for your perspective.



snapcap
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02 Jan 2012, 12:59 pm

Saturn wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Your values are what matters.


What are my values? What are your values?


What I value are the things that keep me from becoming depressed, I don't know what you value, but I'm sure we are common in that.


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AceOfSpades
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02 Jan 2012, 1:13 pm

Saturn wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
I think you're overthinking it. If the grand scheme of things is so grand that it is cosmic, then why should it be worth considering? It's all too vague, distant, and uncertain to be significant. Besides that, it's pointless anyways since we don't have to capacity to tackle the contingencies that such a grand scheme of things present. The idea of mattering isn't that it transcends concerns that pertain to self-interest, but whether or not what matters to us now will still matter in the long run. You're thinking way too big when it comes to the long run though. The "long run" should be short enough to be within reach.

You already know what matters and there's nothing more to it than that. Like you said, it's different for each of us and it's subjective. Which is why I think this question is nothing more than mental masturbation.


Thank you for a more engaged response than that provided by others.

I am certainly 'thinking it'. I'm not sure I'm 'overthinking it'. It is a question I want an answer to for my own life and thinking seems to be the most obvious way to find that answer. Although I've heard the expression before, I'm not sure what you mean by 'mental masturbation'. Perhaps you mean that it is a kind of energy-activity that will not actually create anything. Perhaps, then, I am not trying to create anything but, rather, trying to dissolve an intellectual problem that doesn't actually exist in the real world.
That's exactly why I think it's mental masturbation. I'm only concerned with things connected with the real world. The whole purpose of abstraction to me is to expand on the concrete.

Saturn wrote:
I think you make a good point about the long run being within reach. Yes, I can see that if a target is beyond the range of what can be reached with the 'instrument' that I am, then there is no use in aiming for that target.
Exactly.

Saturn wrote:
But I'm not sure what does matter to me at the moment and that is perhaps what I am searching for here.
I think you're trying to tackle too much. There is no one shop stop for this type of thing that will give you all the answers and make everything else conveniently fall into place. You don't need a perfect answer, just look for answers that are good enough and take it from there. I'm not too much of a soul searcher these days though, I would rather just live my life and enjoy it than spend every waking moment trying to make sense out of it and taking it too seriously. Enjoying life is what matters to me, all the whys in the world aren't worth investigating to me. I can't tell you what should matter to you though, that's for you to address.



Fnord
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02 Jan 2012, 1:52 pm

What matters?

In the here and the now, only the self matters.

When you are hungry, eat.

When you are tired, sleep.

When it itches, scratch it.

When it's dirty, clean it.

Pain is inevitable, while misery is optional - have fun and play.

If you’re lonely, let someone know.

If you see an empty heart, fill it.

Do not worry what other people think.

Adapt or die - there is no in-between.

Tread lightly, but be ready to run.

Stay out of trouble.

:D



Saturn
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02 Jan 2012, 2:03 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
I think you're trying to tackle too much. There is no one shop stop for this type of thing that will give you all the answers and make everything else conveniently fall into place. You don't need a perfect answer, just look for answers that are good enough and take it from there. I'm not too much of a soul searcher these days though, I would rather just live my life and enjoy it than spend every waking moment trying to make sense out of it and taking it too seriously. Enjoying life is what matters to me, all the whys in the world aren't worth investigating to me. I can't tell you what should matter to you though, that's for you to address.


I've not been so preoccupied with self-reflection over the last few months as I was for a good while previously, but the holidays have provided an opportunity to check-in on a few points that had been on the back-burner. No, I don't want to be spending that much time thinking about this stuff either. I want to be out there, having fun a lot more. I suppose I'm in a situation in my life where I'm finding it hard just to go and have that fun, though. And this is a large part, if not all, of the relevance of the question of 'what matters' to my life. Perhaps it is that there are some things I see that could be the fun that I want but I am held back because I think that other things matter, things that don't seem to be compatible with that fun. I've spent a good deal of my life reflecting on things and it's not so much what I want for the foreseeable future. I think I've done quite a good job in many ways of that reflection, just as you would expect anyone who gives themselves to something, to get out what they put in. I'm quite pleased with how I see the world now, and having reached that point, I don't have so much left to do in that area. There's maybe just a few things still bothering me. A few fragments left over, perhaps, that I still want to attend to, or need to attend to, in order that they no longer bother me. The question of 'what matters' is one of these, I suggest. Does anything that mattered to me before, still matter to me? and, now that what mattered to me before no longer matters to me, what matters to me now? But I don't think, I don't want, the mattering of the future to be like the mattering of the past. Indeed, perhaps what matters in the future is that nothing does matter, other than what I want to matter. Can I release myself from objective mattering, and still find my feet in the world where all I have to balance with are those two feet?



ruveyn
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02 Jan 2012, 2:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
What matters?

In the here and the now, only the self matters.

When you are hungry, eat.

When you are tired, sleep.

When it itches, scratch it.

When it's dirty, clean it.

Pain is inevitable, while misery is optional - have fun and play.

If you’re lonely, let someone know.

If you see an empty heart, fill it.

Do not worry what other people think.

Adapt or die - there is no in-between.

Tread lightly, but be ready to run.

Stay out of trouble.

:D


And remember, behind your back, the Universe is laughing at you.

ruveyn



Fnord
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02 Jan 2012, 5:40 pm

ruveyn wrote:
And remember, behind your back, the Universe is laughing at you. ruveyn

I see you've read the Deteriorata...

Benny Lebovits wrote:
Deteriorata
Go placidly amidst the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep. Rotate your tires. Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself; and heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys. Know what to kiss - and when. Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do. Wherever possible, put people on hold. Be comforted, that in the face of all irridity and disillusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember the Pueblo. Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate. Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI. Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you... That lemon on your left, for instance. Be assured that a walk through the seas of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet. Fall not in love, therefore, it will stick to your face. Gracefully surrender the things of youth: the birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan - and let not the sands of time get in your lunch. Hire people with hooks. For a good time, call 606-4311, ask for Ken. Take heart in the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese. And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be worse in Milwaukee.

Therefore, make peace with your god, whatever you perceive him to be: hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin. With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate. GIVE UP!

You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
Whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Truly ... words to live by!

:lol:



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02 Jan 2012, 6:17 pm

Saturn wrote:
What matters?
Coffee and a newspaper in the morning, gin and tonic at lunch, and good company, music or both at suppertime. At bedtime, a good book or a snuggle also goes down well, but these are freely interchangeable.