Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Calling all marxists

Page 2 of 13 [ 194 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 13  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,920
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 Apr 2012, 10:47 am

Subotai wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
EnterThePit wrote:
Are you a marxist, socialist, or communist?

do you think capitalism is the greatest evil (more so the religion)?


talk about it here.

Liberals are welcome.

I'm personally a democratic socialist. :wink:


All the so-called "evils" of Capitalism existed before Capitalism. They are -human- evils.




Absolutely. No matter the system put in place human nature dictates the strong will find a way to elaborately twist it to their favor.
It's only "evil" to those who are getting the short end of it, I see it as the nature of life. Evolution, mating, and securing a foothold in the chaos of reality is all just a manifestation of the drive for survival. Of course multiplied by our recent overwhelming population growth, kept unchecked it is potentially disastrous to our human sustaining eco system.


Because all the worst traits of humanity are just 'human nature' and any of the nicer traits are weak and should be beat out of everyone. :roll: claiming human nature as justification whenever someone brings up the problems with systems in place is well not a very good analysis. I am still convinced a lot of this whole idea about trying to be the biggest, baddest dog in the pack with the biggest pile of bones is conditioned and not some infallible part of human nature......in fact I would say that sort of behavior would be more like the animal nature coming out not so much the human nature.

As for your assumption, it's not just those that are worse off who disagree with this system....but even if it truly was only the worse off who saw the flaws in this system...what of it? That means nothing should be changed and those who take an issue with the system and are struggling just to make a living should just be treated like they don't exist because the system works for some but as a whole kind of fails when it comes to providing an environment everyone has the opportunity to thrive in.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,920
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 Apr 2012, 10:52 am

Anyways I find the idea of anarcho-communism to be quite interesting, and agree with what I've read of it but yeah, I can certainly say I don't find myself to be a capitalist.


_________________
We won't go back.


TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

26 Apr 2012, 11:41 am

The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.

Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.

Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Apr 2012, 11:51 am

If a young man is not a marxist by the time he is twenty he has no heart. If he is still a marxist at the age of forty he has no sense.

ruveyn



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

26 Apr 2012, 11:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
If a young man is not a marxist by the time he is twenty he has no heart. If he is still a marxist at the age of forty he has no sense.

ruveyn


This is interesting. Just for fun, can people in this thread post their age?



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,511
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

26 Apr 2012, 11:54 am

TM wrote:
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Actually what scares me about government is this is its common occurrence. If nepotism happens within a family business then that business sinks on its own merits, if nepotism happens in government accounting or treasury you have a few mils raised on your property taxes or your water bill triples.


_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Apr 2012, 11:54 am

TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
If a young man is not a marxist by the time he is twenty he has no heart. If he is still a marxist at the age of forty he has no sense.

ruveyn


This is interesting. Just for fun, can people in this thread post their age?


I am more than old enough to have outgrown socialism and marxism. Even so, I do not LOVE capitalism.

ruveyn



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

26 Apr 2012, 12:00 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
TM wrote:
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Actually what scares me about government is this is its common occurrence. If nepotism happens within a family business then that business sinks on its own merits, if nepotism happens in government accounting or treasury you have a few mils raised on your property taxes or your water bill triples.


It's a common occurrence in social democratic governed countries, because there is among the social-democratic parties a certain "Party-book before School-book" attitude. Hence why both Sweden and Norway, have had finance ministers without an economic education or experience from social democratic parties on several occasions.



shrox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,295
Location: OK let's go.

26 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

I am expecting a Mad Max world soon.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Apr 2012, 12:05 pm

shrox wrote:
I am expecting a Mad Max world soon.


Short of a nuclear war or some tremendous natural disaster, it will not happen.

ruveyn



Bun
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jan 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,356

26 Apr 2012, 12:19 pm

TM wrote:
The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.

Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.

Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.

I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.


_________________
Double X and proud of it / male pronouns : he, him, his


TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

26 Apr 2012, 1:01 pm

Bun wrote:
TM wrote:
The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.

Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.

Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.

I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.


I know you're confusing "difficult" with "risky". In effect, the tasks required to perform in a manual job are not difficult to do, if they were, then manual labor jobs would be paid better (and those with risks tend to be) because the supply of labor would go down, meaning more demand for each unit of labor.



Bun
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jan 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,356

26 Apr 2012, 1:18 pm

Your point? I actually have proclaimed for most of my life that they need to be paid better. I'm not confusing difficult with risky, you're still underestimating difficulty to the point of ignoring it. Let's take the example of building - is handling bricks not difficult? If you say no, what are you basing it on?


_________________
Double X and proud of it / male pronouns : he, him, his


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,920
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 Apr 2012, 1:30 pm

TM wrote:
The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.

Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.

Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.


I don't know that all manual labor is as simple as shoveling crap, and Microsoft excel is a pretty easy program to use, so I don't know that such a job is more difficult then manual labor. Also must I mention the toll manual labor can take on the physical body, surely the pay should reflect those health risks....though from what I've seen a lot of times it hardly seems to.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,920
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 Apr 2012, 1:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:
If a young man is not a marxist by the time he is twenty he has no heart. If he is still a marxist at the age of forty he has no sense.

ruveyn


It's funny how people twist things so that maturity and growing up becomes synonymous with which ever opinions they have. So everyone should grow up by eventually sharing all the same views you do? You're not the ultimate authority on sense anyways.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,920
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 Apr 2012, 1:40 pm

TM wrote:
Bun wrote:
TM wrote:
The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.

Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.

Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.

If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.

I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.


I know you're confusing "difficult" with "risky". In effect, the tasks required to perform in a manual job are not difficult to do, if they were, then manual labor jobs would be paid better (and those with risks tend to be) because the supply of labor would go down, meaning more demand for each unit of labor.


That is a very inaccurate claim to make. If we had a competent system that did not simply serve to cater to the well off and corporate interests while screwing everyone else over via crap wages, and outsourcing for instance those jobs would be paid better.....it has nothing to do with it not being difficult work which I still don't see how one can say physical labor is not hard work.


_________________
We won't go back.