Do you ever get sick of cynics/misanthropes?

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YAY!! ! Somebody besides me sees this. Finally.

I'm not certain that it's the perception that is the cause, or the symptom. I haven't figured out yet whether it's a rationalization for certain behaviours ("Hmm. I want to be a jerk. Everybody else is a jerk. So I can be a jerk.") or whether it's actually the cause of those behaviours.

Last edited by edgewaters on 03 May 2012, 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cynicism is not the same as misanthropy. I'm a cynic -- naturally, seeing that I've spent 40 years on this planet -- but I'm not a misanthrope. I believe that realists inevitably become cynics at some point, but one can be both a cynic / realist and a humanist. I like humanity. Not up close and personal, but by and large and from afar. I just don't expect much from most of my fellow people, which is only realistic. Any other, rose-tinted outlook will result in great disappointment.

And I strongly dislike people who make idiotic generalizations like this because Carlin said something painfully astute about their pet deity or political party at some point. I happen to be a huge fan of George Carlin. The pre-"Life Is Worth Losing" George Carlin, that is. He did become a bit bitter and angry in his old age, but who can blame him after living so many years in the USA and watching things turn from ridiculous to batsh*t crazy? You can call Carlin many things, but intellectually lazy is certainly not one of them. And I think you will find that many of his fans are pretty well informed about most topics, unless you equate "well informed" with the political beliefs of the Tea Party.

Ha, that's pretty depressing.

I guess the reason cynics and misanthropes annoy me is because I think their pessimism is limiting to our species. Like the more cynics there are, the less chance there is at disarmament, or conquering disease, or a variety of problems we could solve if we were a bit more idealistic.

In order to change anything for the better, we must first acknowledge the status quo in all its ugliness. People who are called cynics by others are usually very good at this. We have no patriotic illusions of grandeur and no misguided national pride.

That's why conservatives often view liberals as unpatriotic cynics, because liberals are not afraid to realize and admit "hey, you know what? We suck. Our corrupt government sucks. The uneducated masses suck, because our education system sucks. The rest of the world either hates us or laughs at us. I mean, look at all this sh*t, we need to clean up our act ASAP".

Conservatives would rather believe that they live in the greatest country of the world, and the only problem are all those naysayers who keep prodding at the duct tape that barely holds the crumbling structure together. I think that the critics and perceived "haters" are a lot more likely to fight for an utopia, exactly because we're so disillusioned about and unsatisfied with the current state of things.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 03 May 2012, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, I see cynics as immature realists. A cynic is essentially a defeated idealist. A realist has come to grips with the fact that the ideals were bankrupt to begin with.

And that's exactly what most people call cynical. Point out that something is not quite as rosy and perfect as the majority would like to believe, and you will be labeled a cynic.

True, cynic and misanthrope aren't the same thing, and I also think a cynic can be a humanist. But I'm starting to think so can a misanthrope. Someone I thought was one is taking an activist stand that I think is very brave. I'm more of a coward when it comes to activism. So, so much for not being either.



I agree with your second paragraph. But I like George Carlin, and though he may have been a cynic (maybe it was an act, I don't know) he also made a lot of good points - about things that could be fixed, and maybe that was his point, to point out that it doesn't have to be this way. To me, the hope that a flawed human system can be fixed isn't all that cynical.

But since I find it hard most of the time and especially today to put logical thoughts together, I think I'll let it drop.

Well ... to confuse matters, I'm a misanthropic, optimistic humanist. I think the species as a whole is vile, but the individuals are really great and things can be improved for everyone by their efforts. But humanity itself is still scum, and always will be.

As long as we don't allow our idealism to contradict human nature, that can only lead to disaster. We must expect people to act like they have since the dawn of time.
Disarmament is impossible, there will always be groups of people willing to seize power. It's a fact of life that ruthlessness and ambition are the qualities which bring people to positions of power, and people in power are the ones controlling the resources and making the rules, the benefactors of humanity must accept this and learn to play these people towards their causes.

You know, I can think of at least one instance of idealism causing trouble. The paperless credit default swap was voted for in Congress by politicians who never dreamed it would wind up paralyzing our credit system and causing a global economic collapse. Maybe they should have seen that, and if they'd been more cynical and even misanthropic they wouldn't have let that happen. But then maybe I'm an idealist for thinking they had good intentions.

How can you explain the dramatic decline in violence over the past few centuries, then? Yes i know we had WW2 and all that, but the fact is, a human being in 2012 is far less likely to die in a violent act compared to human beings of any time since at least the Neolithic.

Not an idealist for thinking they had good intentions, a typical skeptic.

These days aggression in the first world is channeled differently. Instead of forcefully taking another's power we mostly do it indirectly through complex manipulation. Human nature remains fundamentally the same, but manifests itself in a form relevant to our social system.
Watch how quickly we revert to violence in a lord of the flies situation.

I strongly agree with pretty much everything CrazyCatLord has posted in this thread.

I think what people call cynicism is really just a realistic, neutral viewpoint about the world; seeing things for what they are, not affected by the irrational optimism that most people have. And I don't think cynics hold back positive change either, or at least not all of them.