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Why is there so much liberal hate?

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JNathanK
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03 Jul 2012, 3:16 pm

Joker wrote:
It's still not the governmeants job to give us univerasl healthcare. I mean you mine as well let then tell you. When to eat people should take care of themselfs.

But like I said I am a independent a stone cold independent not a liberal or a conservative I have gripes with both groups.

Tarp was a really bad idea that Liberals got passed and a few conservaties voted for as well.


I don't know much about Tarp, so I don't have an opinion. I'll have to read up on it. Yes, people should take care of their selves, first and foremost, but I don't want to live in a society where we all don't give a damn about people dying of disease who can't afford rising health care costs.I just think it makes for a more hostile, money hungry society when people have to barely scrap by to afford chemo for their grandmother. Some people assert that gross inequality could be mended by voluntary charity, but I have to ask why this wasn't the case in Dickensian England or modern day Indonesia or China. Why did millionaires in the 1800's opt for the Malthusian option of work houses rather than the charitable one of doing something to lower housing and food costs? I pretty much think the only viable option is democratic action in which people organize and agree to a social contract that requires the rich to pay for a social safety net. They can live in their fancy houses, but they have to give something back to ensure the lower class doesn't have to live in third world poverty conditions.



Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 3:18 pm

JNathanK wrote:
Joker wrote:
It's still not the governmeants job to give us univerasl healthcare. I mean you mine as well let then tell you. When to eat people should take care of themselfs.

But like I said I am a independent a stone cold independent not a liberal or a conservative I have gripes with both groups.

Tarp was a really bad idea that Liberals got passed and a few conservaties voted for as well.


I don't know much about Tarp, so I don't have an opinion. I'll have to read up on it. Yes, people should take care of their selves, first and foremost, but I don't want to live in a society where we all don't give a damn about people dying of disease who can't afford rising health care costs.I just think it makes for a more hostile, money hungry society when people have to barely scrap by to afford chemo for their grandmother. Some people assert that gross inequality could be mended by voluntary charity, but I have to ask why this wasn't the case in Dickensian England or modern day Indonesia or China. Why did millionaires in the 1800's opt for the Malthusian option of work houses rather than the charitable one of doing something to lower housing and food costs? I pretty much think the only viable option is democratic action in which people organize and agree to a social contract that requires the rich to pay for a social safety net. They can live in their fancy houses, but they have to give something back to ensure the lower class doesn't have to live in third world poverty conditions.


Yes that is true I agree a single healthcare payer system would solve the healthcare problem.



marshall
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03 Jul 2012, 3:19 pm

Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
If a government's duty isn't to protect and serve its citizens, what is it supposed to do?

What it's always done in the past. Protect and serve the property of the elite class and keep the rest placated enough to stem unrest. The traditional role of government is to preserve order alone and conservatives seem to want to move back in that direction.


As a indepenent some of us want that as well. What we need is the right to a job. That away people can work and provide for their family.

How do you propose to do that without forcing people to share their wealth? You can't arbitrarily create enough jobs to have 100% employment without forcing employers to hire at a loss. Getting rid of minimum wage does not help as these workers will not be able to make ends meet and you are ultimately down to the very same predicament of people relying on outside assistance to survive.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:21 pm

marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
If a government's duty isn't to protect and serve its citizens, what is it supposed to do?

What it's always done in the past. Protect and serve the property of the elite class and keep the rest placated enough to stem unrest. The traditional role of government is to preserve order alone and conservatives seem to want to move back in that direction.


As a indepenent some of us want that as well. What we need is the right to a job. That away people can work and provide for their family.

How do you propose to do that without forcing people to share their wealth? You can't arbitrarily create enough jobs to have 100% employment without forcing employers to hire at a loss. Getting rid of minimum wage does not help as these workers will not be able to make ends meet and you are ultimately down to the very same predicament of people relying on outside assistance to survive.


When you earn a wage that's your money. People share their wealth by paying taxes. I am not against outside assiassantce. Everyone needs help but if we all have a right to a job. We can at least afford the things we need to live. A good life.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:21 pm

Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
Liberals tend to pass really stupid laws and. They want the governemant to take care of them. Instead of being self-relaint and take care of themnselfs.


Economic depressions are times when people are fearful. In times like this, preaching the "every man for himself" philosophy is like pouring salt on an open wound. It's like taking a knife to the very fabric of society. There is no such thing as being self-reliant unless you choose to go live in the wilderness and grow your own food. It's a myth.


Not so I am a very self-reliant independent person I take care of myself. It's called working having a job doing what it takes to provide for your family. With out having unlce sams help.


Hi again. Three job household. Without government assistance my wife and child would be dead in the streets, as would I.

Does it hurt, being so stupid all the time?


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Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 3:25 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
Liberals tend to pass really stupid laws and. They want the governemant to take care of them. Instead of being self-relaint and take care of themnselfs.


Economic depressions are times when people are fearful. In times like this, preaching the "every man for himself" philosophy is like pouring salt on an open wound. It's like taking a knife to the very fabric of society. There is no such thing as being self-reliant unless you choose to go live in the wilderness and grow your own food. It's a myth.


Not so I am a very self-reliant independent person I take care of myself. It's called working having a job doing what it takes to provide for your family. With out having unlce sams help.


Hi again. Three job household. Without government assistance my wife and child would be dead in the streets, as would I.

Does it hurt, being so stupid all the time?


My mother is going through the same thing. SHe got a tempt job threw man power. But she works hard to earn her wage and takes care of her parents me and my brother. If we call had a right to a job things would be better. In france it;s really hard to fire anyone but in america they can let us go with out having a reason.

WHen it is the middel and lower class like you and I that suffer the most. We should have the right to work.



JNathanK
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03 Jul 2012, 3:32 pm

Joker wrote:

Yes that is true I agree a single healthcare payer system would solve the healthcare problem.


Yah, the bill that passed seemed like a big give me to health care insurance companies. Its good they have more restrictions to where they can turn people away with pre-existing conditions, but now people are going to be require to give money to them.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:34 pm

JNathanK wrote:
Joker wrote:

Yes that is true I agree a single healthcare payer system would solve the healthcare problem.


Yah, the bill that passed seemed like a big give me to health care insurance companies. Its good they have more restrictions to where they can turn people away with pre-existing conditions, but now people are going to be require to give money to them.


The bill has it's bad parts. But a lot of good to. I just don't see it as rainbows and sunshine as some people view it.



marshall
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03 Jul 2012, 3:35 pm

Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
Liberals tend to pass really stupid laws and. They want the governemant to take care of them. Instead of being self-relaint and take care of themnselfs.


Economic depressions are times when people are fearful. In times like this, preaching the "every man for himself" philosophy is like pouring salt on an open wound. It's like taking a knife to the very fabric of society. There is no such thing as being self-reliant unless you choose to go live in the wilderness and grow your own food. It's a myth.


Not so I am a very self-reliant independent person I take care of myself. It's called working having a job doing what it takes to provide for your family. With out having unlce sams help.


No, if you're not out in the wild bush living off the land you are reliant on society. You could live in a slum in Dhaka.



circular
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03 Jul 2012, 3:35 pm

Hate against liberals really depends on the country you are in, or the region, or the group of people. You may be in the bad group of people.



Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 3:37 pm

marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
marshall wrote:
Joker wrote:
Liberals tend to pass really stupid laws and. They want the governemant to take care of them. Instead of being self-relaint and take care of themnselfs.


Economic depressions are times when people are fearful. In times like this, preaching the "every man for himself" philosophy is like pouring salt on an open wound. It's like taking a knife to the very fabric of society. There is no such thing as being self-reliant unless you choose to go live in the wilderness and grow your own food. It's a myth.


Not so I am a very self-reliant independent person I take care of myself. It's called working having a job doing what it takes to provide for your family. With out having unlce sams help.


No, if you're not out in the wild bush living off the land you are reliant on society. You could live in a slum in Dhaka.


Not really I work have a job take care of myself. With out govermeant aid their is a diffrence being relaint on society then being. Reliant on the govermeant.



Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 3:39 pm

circular wrote:
Hate against liberals really depends on the country you are in, or the region, or the group of people. You may be in the bad group of people.


Very true I am from north carolina we have. A lot of LIberals and Conservatives. I am a odd ball becasue I am neither. ANd a regiestered independent.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:39 pm

...



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 09 Jul 2012, 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 3:41 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
We lived in a time of extreme political polarization. It's sort of scary....

JNathanK wrote:
Joker wrote:
It's still not the governmeants job to give us univerasl healthcare. I mean you mine as well let then tell you. When to eat people should take care of themselfs.

But like I said I am a independent a stone cold independent not a liberal or a conservative I have gripes with both groups.

Tarp was a really bad idea that Liberals got passed and a few conservaties voted for as well.


I don't know much about Tarp, so I don't have an opinion. I'll have to read up on it. Yes, people should take care of their selves, first and foremost, but I don't want to live in a society where we all don't give a damn about people dying of disease who can't afford rising health care costs.I just think it makes for a more hostile, money hungry society when people have to barely scrap by to afford chemo for their grandmother. Some people assert that gross inequality could be mended by voluntary charity, but I have to ask why this wasn't the case in Dickensian England or modern day Indonesia or China. Why did millionaires in the 1800's opt for the Malthusian option of work houses rather than the charitable one of doing something to lower housing and food costs? I pretty much think the only viable option is democratic action in which people organize and agree to a social contract that requires the rich to pay for a social safety net. They can live in their fancy houses, but they have to give something back to ensure the lower class doesn't have to live in third world poverty conditions.

Exactly, I wonder sometimes if Libertarians don't suffer from a naive fatal optimism about how good people are - at the same time they jump all over liberals wanting a MIXTURE of social and capitalist institutions and call it a slippery slope. How can they be so trusting (of big money) and so suspicious at the same time?


Good question.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:41 pm

joker, you arent self reliant.

we are all dependant on the knowledge and work of others, especially in this day and age.


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03 Jul 2012, 3:44 pm

Oodain wrote:
joker, you arent self reliant.

we are all dependant on the knowledge and work of others, especially in this day and age.


Yes I am I do not depend on govermeant aid, That is what I mean being self-reliant from the govermeant.