Any Stalinists around these parts?

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JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 9:30 pm

nominalist wrote:

JitakuKeibiinB wrote:

I'm what other socialists would pejoratively call a "Stalinist". Nobody actually calls themselves "Stalinists" because there's no such thing as "Stalinism", only Marxism-Leninism, as Stalin made no significant theoretical contribution.

If there is no such thing as Stalinism, why would people call you that? Stalin was a revisionist. He was not a Marxist or a Leninist.

JitakuKeibiinB wrote:

What capitalist media calls "Stalinist" is usually whatever they feel like, even if it's blatantly un-Marxist. (The DPRK, for example.) They just use it as a buzzword.

Yes. That part is true. Even anticommunists and supporters of corporate capitalism, like President Obama, are regularly called communists. However, the American media (in particular) are pretty far to the right (based on global standards).

JitakuKeibiinB wrote:

so I'll just say: Yes, there are a few of us around.

If, as you said, there are no Stalinists, why are you now claiming to be one?

Politics as extreme fashion.

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31 Jul 2012, 9:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:

[He was a Red Fascist gangster thug. His regime was the Russian Mafia writ large.

He was a tyrant. The term "red fascist" is an oxymoron.

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JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 10:00 pm

nominalist wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

[He was a Red Fascist gangster thug. His regime was the Russian Mafia writ large.

He was a tyrant. The term "red fascist" is an oxymoron.

And like most oxymorons very telling.
He converted Marxist internationalism into Russian Imperialism.

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nominalist
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31 Jul 2012, 10:00 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

And like most oxymorons very telling.
He converted Marxist internationalism into Russian Imperialism.

Yes, but Russian imperialism was anti-fascist.

JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 10:05 pm

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

And like most oxymorons very telling.
He converted Marxist internationalism into Russian Imperialism.

Yes, but Russian imperialism was anti-fascist.

Sure if you are playing teams.
(and include the U.S. on the side of the fascists as we were in most cases.)
But in policing there is very little difference.
Folks in jackboots are the bad guys :wink:

.
that is my personal heuristic.

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ruveyn
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31 Jul 2012, 10:06 pm

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

And like most oxymorons very telling.
He converted Marxist internationalism into Russian Imperialism.

Yes, but Russian imperialism was anti-fascist.

No. It was Fascist, with a different tinge. The differences between Hitler and Stalin were mostly verbal and stylistic.

Stalin made Class hereditary. If you father was a Worker then so are you. If your father was a capitalist than so are you. And so on. Stalin committed murders based on ethnicity. The fact that he used Marxist jargon rather than overtly racist jargon is a stylistic difference.

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31 Jul 2012, 10:09 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Sure if you are playing teams.

Nope. Stalin and Mussolini had entirely different ideologies.

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31 Jul 2012, 10:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:

No. It was Fascist, with a different tinge. The differences between Hitler and Stalin were mostly verbal and stylistic.

You are not using these terms historically. Mussolini was a Fascist. Hitler was a Nazi (which had some similarities to Fascism but also some differences). Stalin was a revisionist communist.

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31 Jul 2012, 10:14 pm

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Sure if you are playing teams.

Nope. Stalin and Mussolini had entirely different ideologies.

Not if you go beneath the surface. Il Duce and Hitler started off as men of the Left. Despite their later shifts they remained collectivist to the bone. The essential feature is collectivism, not the ideological gibberish that is employed.

Read -Liberal Fascism- by Jonah Goldberg.

ruveyn

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31 Jul 2012, 10:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:

As an academic, I am not interested in big-picture stuff. That is also why the Illuminati conspiracists go off the deep end. I focus on particular situations and try to understand them.

ruveyn wrote:

Read -Liberal Fascism- by Jonah Goldberg.

Oh, so that's where you got the idea. You should know that Goldberg has been widely criticized by legitimate researchers for that view. It is historically unsupportable. The guy allows his own ideology to govern his observations.

JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 10:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Sure if you are playing teams.

Nope. Stalin and Mussolini had entirely different ideologies.

I made a slight editorial change to the second part of your statement so that he could get some common ground. :lol:

Seriously thought Uncle Joe was a fascist.
Not because he was a commie but because he was a thug,
it is force not collectivism that makes the Fascist.

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ruveyn
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31 Jul 2012, 10:26 pm

nominalist wrote:

[

Oh, so that's where you got the idea. You should know that Goldberg has been widely criticized by legitimate researchers for that view. It is historically unsupportable. The guy allows his own ideology to govern his observations.

That is true. However he has mined enough quotes to convince me that Fascism far predated Hitler and Il Duce. You can trace it back as far as Alexander Hamilton and Abraham Lincoln. Goldberg is not the ideal proponent of his view, but he has gathered (or dredged up, as some would say) sufficient data to give his view some support.

I focus primarily on whether a political doctrine is pro-individual or is collectivist at its root. Any doctrine that preaches the primacy and or supremacy of the State is protofascist.

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31 Jul 2012, 10:29 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

I made a slight editorial change to the second part of your statement so that he could get some common ground. :lol:

In my field, we call that intellectual dishonesty.

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31 Jul 2012, 10:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:

That is true. However he has mined enough quotes to convince me that Fascism far predated Hitler and Il Duce.

Research has nothing to do with providing "quotes."

JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 10:36 pm

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

I made a slight editorial change to the second part of your statement so that he could get some common ground. :lol:

In my field, we call that intellectual dishonesty.

How so? I was completely transparent in my methods and intent.
One really can not expect more honesty than that.

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ruveyn
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31 Jul 2012, 10:36 pm

nominalist wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

That is true. However he has mined enough quotes to convince me that Fascism far predated Hitler and Il Duce.

Research has nothing to do with providing "quotes."

It does when the proto-fascists damn themselves out of their own mouths or pens.

For example there are writings of Margret Sanger which shows she is a racist collectivist. No better than the ideological flaks that supported Nazi racial policy. The same could be said of Woodrow Wilson.

The point is that collectivist, anti-individualism goes back a long long way. Far in advance of Hitler, Stalin and Il Duce.

Keep your eye peeled and your ear opened to anyone who makes the State, Government or Society primary over the individual and his family. There you will spot your proto-fascist or your quasi fascist. Just about every American politician since Andrew Jackson falls into that class.

ruveyn

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