Pat Condell: "Your moral guide"

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Here is a generally-accepted listing of major events from the New Testament of the Bible, and from world history of the same period:

0006 B.C.: Caesar Augustus orders the first census of the Roman provinces of Syria and Iudaea.

0006 B.C.: (Approximate Year) Birth of Jesus of Nazareth (Aramaic: Yeshua N'zareth), called "Christ" and "Messiah". "Jesus" means "God Delivers" or "God Rescues" in the original Aramaic.

0004 B.C.: (Approximate Year) A group of distinguished foreigners from the east ("Magi" or "Wise Men") visit Jesus after his birth, bearing gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. The exact number of these visitors is never explicitly stated in any of the Gospels.

0004 B.C.: (Approximate Year) Acting on information obtained from the "Magi", Herod the Great decrees that all male children, 2 years of age or under, be put to death.

0004 B.C.: (Approximate Year) Jesus' family flees with him to Egypt.

0004 B.C.: (03/?? or 04/??) Death of Herod the Great at Jericho.

0004 B.C.: (Approximate Year) Jesus' family returns with him from Egypt.

0001 B.C.: Last year of BC era. The "BC" or "B.C." designation commemorates the birth of Jesus of Nazareth as the "Christ". Secularists use the term "BCE" for "Before Common Era" instead.

0001 A.D.: First year of "Anno Domini" era. The "AD" or "A.D." designation commemorates the birth of Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God. Secularists use the term "CE" for "Common Era" instead.

0008 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Jesus becomes separated from his family, who find him teaching at the temple.

0014 A.D.: The reign of Augustus Caesar over the Roman Empire ends with his death.

0020 A.D.: (Approximate Year) The teachings of the Buddha are finalized in their current form.

0025 A.D.: Pomponius Mela formalizes the climatic zone system.

0026 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Jesus is baptized by his cousin, John, and begins his ministry.

0027 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Jesus delivers his "Sermon on the Mount".

0028 A.D.: (Approximate Year) The death by beheading of John ("the Baptist"), the cousin of Jesus of Nazareth.

0030 A.D.: (Approximate Year) The betrayal, trial, and death by crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth.

0037 A.D.: (12/15) Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus is born in Antium, Italy.

0037 A.D.: Titus Flavius Josephus, also called Joseph ben Matityahu, is born. He becomes a noted historian of the middle first century, C.E.

0049 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle to the Galatians -- Theme is "Freedom Through Faith".

0050 A.D.: (Approximate Year) James, half brother of Jesus, writes the Book of James.

0050 A.D.: Pedanius Dioscorides describes the medical applications of plants in "De Materia Medica".

0051 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul writes his Epistle, 2nd Thessalonians -- theme is "Perseverence".

0054 A.D.: (10/13) Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus ("Nero") proclaimed Emperor of the Roman empire.

0056 A.D.: Paul writes his 1st Epistle to the Corinthians -- theme is "Problems in the Church".

0056 A.D.: Paul writes his 2nd Epistle to the Corinthians -- theme is "Paul's Authority Against False Teachers".

0057 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle to the Romans -- theme is "Salvation & Righteousness".

0060 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John Mark writes the "Gospel According to Mark", the first of the four Gospels.

0060 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Luke writes the "Gospel According to Luke", the second of the four Gospels.

0060 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul writes his Epistle to Philemon -- theme is "Brothers in Christ".

0060 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul writes his Epistle to the Colossians -- theme is "Christ is Everything".

0060 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul writes his Epistle to the Ephesians -- theme is "Church & Body of Christ".

0060 A.D.: Hero of Alexandria writes "Metrica", "Mechanics", and "Pneumatics".

0061 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle to the Philippians -- theme is "Joy at All Times".

0062 A.D.: Luke writes the "Acts of the Apostles".

0062 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle to Titus -- theme is "Living in Faith".

0062 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle, 1st Timothy -- theme is "Caring for the Church".

0063 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Peter writes 2nd Peter.

0063 A.D.: Peter writes 1st Peter.

0064 A.D.: (07/18) The Great Fire of Rome erupts at the southeastern end of the Circus Maximus in shops selling flammable goods, and burned for five days.

0065 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Matthew writes the "Gospel According to Matthew", the third of the four Gospels.

0065 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul writes his Epistle to the Hebrews.

0066 A.D.: A Jewish revolt against Roman occupation in Judea begins, stemming also from Greek and Jewish religious tension. A group of Jewish extremists called the Sicarii overcame the Roman garrison of Masada and settled there.

0067 A.D.: Nero dispatches Vespasian to restore order in Judea.

0067 A.D.: Paul writes his Epistle, 2nd Timothy -- theme is "Paul's Last Words".

0068 A.D.: (06/09) Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (Emperor Nero) commits suicide rather than face assassination.

0068 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Paul is executed by decapitation in Rome.

0069 A.D.: Additional members of the Sicarii and many Jewish families flee Jerusalem and settle on the mountaintop city of Masada, with the Sicarii using the city as a base for harassing the Romans.

0070 A.D.: (Approximate Year) Jude, half brother of Jesus, writes his Epistle.

0070 A.D.: Destruction of Jerusalem by Imperial Roman forces led by Vespasian.

0072 A.D.: The Roman governor of Iudaea, Lucius Flavius Silva, leads the Roman Legion X Fretensis to lay siege to the 960 people in Masada. They begin building an earthen rampart to allow access to the mountaintop city.

0073 A.D.: (04/16) The Roman rampart at Masada is complete in the spring of 73, after probably two to three months of siege, allowing the Romans to finally breach the wall of the Masada fortress with a battering ram. When the Romans enter the fortress they discovered that its 960 inhabitants had set all the buildings but the food storerooms ablaze and had committed mass suicide.

0075 A.D.: Titus Flavius Josephus writes "The Jewish War", recounting the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation, and the siege and seizure of Masada.

0090 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John writes 1st John.

0090 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John writes 2nd John.

0090 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John writes 3rd John.

0090 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John writes the "Gospel According to John", the last of the four books of the Gospel.

0090 A.D.: (Approximate Year) John writes the Book of the Revelation, the final book of the Christian Bible.

0094 A.D.: Titus Flavius Josephus writes "Antiquities of the Jews", recounting the history of the world from a Jewish perspective for a Roman audience.

0100 A.D.: Titus Flavius Josephus dies. His most important works were "The Jewish War" and "Antiquities of the Jews". These works provide valuable insight into 1st century Judaism and the background of Early Christianity.

0105 A.D.: Tsai Lun of China invents paper.

Paul does continue some of the same morality that is found in the old law, but if memory serves, (it has been several months since I read through the epistles) it is not just because the old law said to but because they fit in with christian morality. I am aware of Paul's comments on women. Most of these look awful out of context but when read in context are very different. I.E.: Paul said that wives should be obedient to their husbands, but also says that husbands should love their wives as themselves and be ready to die for them. If husband is fulfilling his part of loving his wife as himself, he certainly isn't going to try to force anything she doesn't want on her. The one part of Paul's comments on women that raises an eyebrow for me is when he talks about women keeping quiet in church and not teaching. But in acts a husband-and-wife pair, Aquila and Pricialla if memory serves, and said to teach together, which means women were teaching in the early church. Furthermore, Paul voices his approval of these two in his epistles. I always scratch my head at this.

Finally, want constitutes "long"? I've seen men with much longer hair than Jesus is traditionally depicted as having.

OK I checked the thing about the dates of writing. I'll happily concede that point - I should have said around a hundred years.

However, that was hardly the most relevant point. You didn't address the editorial process nor the incongruity between Jesus' and other people's EXPLICIT statements that the laws still apply to all and the suggestion that they don't and that the only important law for Christians is the law of faith. I have found nothing categorical to prove that the latter is the case. In fact from what I can gather a lot of that decision was made at the Council of Jerusalem (which appears to have existed to interpret some of the rules (interpretation which the bible itself explicitly forbids). I am looking for an EXPLICIT rejection (preferably by JESUS) of the OT laws for Christians - something as unambiguous as the passages I linked.

As another little example: Revelation2:14 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality." 2:16 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.".

So what is Jesus so pissed about as far as the idol sacrifice, the eating of the idol sacrifices and the sexual immorality? From what I can gather the law of faith doesn't cover those - the old law does - but Jesus sounds pretty pissed about them there.

Basically unless we are going to start interpreting it wholesale then bible itself is internally inconsistent, like I said in my first post (and as Fnord pointed out even Paul (and probably other books) are not consistent within themselves). Once again I invite you to admit that the bible IS internally inconsistent and that attempting to prove any points made therein using logic and reason is futile. Believe if you like but have the intellectual honesty to admit that it is FAITH that sustains your belief and not reason.

This is Matthew, allegedly quoting Jesus in MT 5:17:

• Witches should be put to death (EX 22:18).
• Homosexuals should be put to death (LV 20:13).
• Fathers can sell their daughters into slavery (EX 21:7).

Has this boring turd Condell stopped pretending to be a comedian yet?