Is America heading towards fascism?

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blackelk
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04 Nov 2012, 7:59 pm

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

Yet Hitler and Mussoloni both wanted increased government power and centralization, while Paul wants the exact opposite. Paul was against bailouts of big business, against the Federal Reserve, etc. It's a stupid comparison. Quit while you're behind.

What they were advocating was greater integration of big business with government. Not greater government in lieu of private power.

That is why the heavy industrialists were empowered members of the German nazi party.

And Paul is leaving big business and the banksters hanging out to dry and fend for themselves. It is people like Obama and Romney who want more integration of business and government. They are the ones taking taxpayer money and giving it to corporations. You're ass backwards.

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thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 7:59 pm

Jacoby wrote:

lol no. Fascism is explicitly anti-capitalist and arguing otherwises is just plain dumb and shows you have knowledge of history.

Fascism is anti capitalist only in as far as it appeals against libertarian dogma of individualism. The common denominator is the overriding power of corporations which renders all other factors irrelevant.

Libertarianism is simply fascism with anarchism.

Tequila
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04 Nov 2012, 8:01 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Libertarianism is simply fascism with anarchism.

Not really. You can set up all the socialist communes you like under libertarianism, because people don't actually care about you (as long as you pay your bills and don't bother anyone else). If you can make it work, people will be happy for you. The government won't support you, and you're expected to make your own way in life.

Try having a socialist commune under a fascist system.

Last edited by Tequila on 04 Nov 2012, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blackelk
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04 Nov 2012, 8:02 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

lol no. Fascism is explicitly anti-capitalist and arguing otherwises is just plain dumb and shows you have knowledge of history.

You're so clueless to even use the words "fascism" with "anarchy" in the same sentence.

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thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:02 pm

blackelk wrote:

And Paul is leaving big business and the banksters hanging out to dry and fend for themselves.

Not to mention people on the other end of the social scale.

That is the problem with Libertarianism; it cuts both ways.

blackelk wrote:

It is people like Obama and Romney who want more integration of business and government.

Its not to say I agree with integration of government and business but government is fine in principle providing it protects the vulnerable.

To take the Paul stance to say "we want no government at all" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

blackelk
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04 Nov 2012, 8:04 pm

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

And Paul is leaving big business and the banksters hanging out to dry and fend for themselves.

Not to mention people on the other end of the social scale.

That is the problem with Libertarianism; it cuts both ways.

blackelk wrote:

It is people like Obama and Romney who want more integration of business and government.

And yet again, there is nothing fascist here. Not wanting a welfare or nanny state does not make one a fascist.

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Last edited by blackelk on 04 Nov 2012, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:04 pm

blackelk wrote:

You're so clueless to even use the words "fascism" with "anarchy" in the same sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-Anarchism

blackelk
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04 Nov 2012, 8:06 pm

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

You're so clueless to even use the words "fascism" with "anarchy" in the same sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-Anarchism

That definition says "anti capitalist". Paul is anti capitalist now? Make up your mind.

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04 Nov 2012, 8:07 pm

America passed Fascism in the back strech, and coming around the turn it is America by three lengths, Fascism goose stepping along, and all the other horses have given up and are feeding in the Meadows of Debt.

Fascism is when the religion and business pick a government. We have that.

Their plan is a non plan, that no one can regulate them. We have that.

Their platform is God knows what he is doing. To question is to doubt God. We have that.

All problems can be solved by the Police and Millitary. We have that.

Non believers must be forced to tithe in their net worth, lives of their children, for the State of God. We have that.

Wealth is the measure of Gods Love, and only some are worthy. We have that.

God will provide even if we print money day and night, to fund Gods Work. We have that.

It always ends with the money becoming worthless, Fascists hanging by their heels from lamp posts, and everyone denying they had anything to do with it. Coming soon to a neighbiorhood near you.

Jacoby
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04 Nov 2012, 8:08 pm

You can argue against libertarianism all you want but associating at any level with fascism just has no basis in reality.

You know know who 'progressives' admired back in the 30s don't you? Hint: it wasn't Ludwig von Mises or F.A. Hayek.

thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:11 pm

blackelk wrote:

And yet again, there is nothing fascist here. Not wanting a welfare or nanny state does not make one a fascist.

The underlying problem is that fascism is, and always has been badly defined. Thats allowed nefarious groups congregating along the borderline far right to advocate despicable policies and avoid being associated with the Hitlers of this world simply by decrying the evils of the state. In reality, the end game is always the same. What we can say though is that there are common denominators that correlate with the Pauls and Mussolinis. They are both advocates of the private sector. They both want to see controlled or zero immigration. They both trumpet the national colours and all the arbitrary divine blessings that apparently are bestowed upon it. They both (presumably) would like increased domestic police powers. Paul though, reviles the state as the cause of all evil. Well pass me the happy pills.

The difference between libertarianism and fascism?

Under fascism, you are starved of your freedom.

Under libertarianism you are free to starve.

blackelk
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04 Nov 2012, 8:14 pm

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

And yet again, there is nothing fascist here. Not wanting a welfare or nanny state does not make one a fascist.

The underlying problem is that fascism is, and always has been badly defined. Thats allowed nefarious groups congregating along the borderline far right to advocate despicable policies and avoid being associated with the Hitlers of this world simply by decrying the evils of the state. In reality, the end game is always the same. What we can say though is that there are common denominators that correlate with the Pauls and Mussolinis. They are both advocates of the private sector. They both want to see controlled or zero immigration. They both (presumably) would like increased domestic police powers. Paul though, reviles the state as the cause of all evil. Well pass me the happy pills.

The difference between libertarianism and fascism?

Under fascism, you are starved of your freedom.

Under libertarianism you are free to starve.

It's not poorly defined, you just don't want to accept the definition and twist it to suit your views.

So you admit libertarianism is a different entity than fascism.

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.

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thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:14 pm

Jacoby wrote:

that depends how you define 'progressive'.

thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:16 pm

blackelk wrote:

I said that they are different entities, cosmetically only.

I also said that the end result is the same.

Its sort of how American capitalism is a different entity to Chinese 'Socialism'.

blackelk wrote:

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.

For the same purpose.

Greater power for the private sector and wealthy sponsors.

Last edited by thomas81 on 04 Nov 2012, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jacoby
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04 Nov 2012, 8:17 pm

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

And yet again, there is nothing fascist here. Not wanting a welfare or nanny state does not make one a fascist.

The underlying problem is that fascism is, and always has been badly defined. Thats allowed nefarious groups congregating along the borderline far right to advocate despicable policies and avoid being associated with the Hitlers of this world simply by decrying the evils of the state. In reality, the end game is always the same. What we can say though is that there are common denominators that correlate with the Pauls and Mussolinis. They are both advocates of the private sector. They both want to see controlled or zero immigration. They both (presumably) would like increased domestic police powers. Paul though, reviles the state as the cause of all evil. Well pass me the happy pills.

The difference between libertarianism and fascism?

Under fascism, you are starved of your freedom.

Under libertarianism you are free to starve.

This is honestly the dumbest post in the dumbest thread I think that has ever been made on WP. Wow.

We can only hope you are trolling.

thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:18 pm

Jacoby wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

blackelk wrote:

And yet again, there is nothing fascist here. Not wanting a welfare or nanny state does not make one a fascist.

The underlying problem is that fascism is, and always has been badly defined. Thats allowed nefarious groups congregating along the borderline far right to advocate despicable policies and avoid being associated with the Hitlers of this world simply by decrying the evils of the state. In reality, the end game is always the same. What we can say though is that there are common denominators that correlate with the Pauls and Mussolinis. They are both advocates of the private sector. They both want to see controlled or zero immigration. They both (presumably) would like increased domestic police powers. Paul though, reviles the state as the cause of all evil. Well pass me the happy pills.

The difference between libertarianism and fascism?

Under fascism, you are starved of your freedom.

Under libertarianism you are free to starve.

This is honestly the dumbest post in the dumbest thread I think that has ever been made on WP. Wow.

We can only hope you are trolling.

Explain how I'm wrong other than chucking ad hominems.

I thought this thread would ruffle the fur of the derp squad though, so i cant say I'm so surprised.

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