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Why do so many people think that abortion is acceptable?

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androbot2084
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12 Nov 2012, 11:57 am

In 4 dimensional reality once conception takes place a sentient being is created.



thomas81
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12 Nov 2012, 11:58 am

to prohibit abortion is to prohibit a woman's control over her own body.



DarthMetaKnight
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12 Nov 2012, 11:59 am

androbot2084 wrote:
In 4 dimensional reality once conception takes place a sentient being is created.

What?


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ruveyn
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12 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
In 4 dimensional reality once conception takes place a sentient being is created.

What?


In a block 4 d spacetime universe the future the present and the past all coexist.

ruveyn



thomas81
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12 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
In 4 dimensional reality once conception takes place a sentient being is created.

What?


In a block 4 d spacetime universe the future the present and the past all coexist.

ruveyn



I can't believe pro lifers are using Hawking physics to validate their argument.

Irony overload.



androbot2084
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12 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm

Because you believe that Pro-Lifers are against science.



thomas81
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12 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Because you believe that Pro-Lifers are against science.


Hawking and his contemporaries work largely on the basis that god does not exist.

Pro-Lifers by in large, are theists.



Shatbat
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12 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
In 4 dimensional reality once conception takes place a sentient being is created.

What?


In a block 4 d spacetime universe the future the present and the past all coexist.

ruveyn


Could it be argued that if the pregnancy is terminated, then in the future that child will not exist and thus not be sentient and thus the conceived being isn't sentient either?


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robo37
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12 Nov 2012, 1:15 pm

Not the best of videos but I really don't understand how anyone can think this is morally correct...

How abortions kill the baby

Edit: better one from a professional - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Vvfckoq8w



Jitro
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12 Nov 2012, 3:36 pm

Fetuses are not conscious beings. Humans typically become conscious beings at the age of 3. Sometimes they are earlier, but they are never conscious as a fetus.



XFilesGeek
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12 Nov 2012, 4:00 pm

It comes down to two things IMHO:

1. If it doesn't have a brain, it doesn't count. If we ascribe "sentience" to something without a brain, we might as well ascribe it to rocks and trees.

2. I'm a woman. I object to any and all notions to my body, or any part of my body, is "owned" and subject to regulation by any entity other than myself.

Badda-bing, badda-boom.


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abacacus
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12 Nov 2012, 4:11 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
It comes down to two things IMHO:

1. If it doesn't have a brain, it doesn't count. If we ascribe "sentience" to something without a brain, we might as well ascribe it to rocks and trees.

2. I'm a woman. I object to any and all notions to my body, or any part of my body, is "owned" and subject to regulation by any entity other than myself.

Badda-bing, badda-boom.


The definition of "sentient":

"Able to perceive or feel things," or a better version would be "able to react to stimuli".

Rocks aren't sentient, but many plants (if not all) certainly are. So are micro-organisms.


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12 Nov 2012, 4:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Abortion in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother you can morally justify in my opinion but I don't think that is case in the majority abortions.

I've thought about abortion a lot recently, I think what people forget there isn't just one party to it. You have the mother but there is also the father and most importantly the child whose life hangs in the balance. A man can't force a woman to get an abortion but we as a society demand that he supports that child. We accept this level of personal responsibility for ones actions, why can't we ask the same for a woman that becomes pregnant thru consensual means? It seems only consistent. If you believe that a woman should be able to wash her hands of her unborn child then why can't a man do the same? At least in the case of the man you aren't taking a life.


I hate to quote myself and I appreciate the response Species5618 but I don't want this get buried. I think its a sound argument and I would like to hear what people think of it.



XFilesGeek
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12 Nov 2012, 4:30 pm

abacacus wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
It comes down to two things IMHO:

1. If it doesn't have a brain, it doesn't count. If we ascribe "sentience" to something without a brain, we might as well ascribe it to rocks and trees.

2. I'm a woman. I object to any and all notions to my body, or any part of my body, is "owned" and subject to regulation by any entity other than myself.

Badda-bing, badda-boom.


The definition of "sentient":

"Able to perceive or feel things," or a better version would be "able to react to stimuli".

Rocks aren't sentient, but many plants (if not all) certainly are. So are micro-organisms.


I was primarily referring to #1. Of course, if it doesn't have a brain, it can't do #2 either. As for plants, we know they react to sensory stimuli; we don't know how or if they "perceive" it.

Quote:
sentience or sentiency (ˈsɛnʃəns)

— n
1. the state or quality of being sentient; awareness
2. sense perception not involving intelligence or mental perception; feeling



However, to avoid semantic debates, let me rephrase to "consciousness," or "self-awareness.


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XFilesGeek
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12 Nov 2012, 4:32 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Abortion in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother you can morally justify in my opinion but I don't think that is case in the majority abortions.

I've thought about abortion a lot recently, I think what people forget there isn't just one party to it. You have the mother but there is also the father and most importantly the child whose life hangs in the balance. A man can't force a woman to get an abortion but we as a society demand that he supports that child. We accept this level of personal responsibility for ones actions, why can't we ask the same for a woman that becomes pregnant thru consensual means? It seems only consistent. If you believe that a woman should be able to wash her hands of her unborn child then why can't a man do the same? At least in the case of the man you aren't taking a life.


I hate to quote myself and I appreciate the response Species5618 but I don't want this get buried. I think its a sound argument and I would like to hear what people think of it.


FYI: I wouldn't have a problem giving child support laws the boot.


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Jacoby
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12 Nov 2012, 4:37 pm

That's a very interesting response. 3/3 of people that have responded to this so far seem to agree that men shouldn't have to pay child support. I can at least respect this view even tho I don't necessarily agree with it as it is consistent.