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Creep Shaming?

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Tequila
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30 Jan 2013, 12:03 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Some people have just been done to or set up in ways where they believe everyone wants them or everyone is hitting on them - and sadly more often than not they may be right.


It would be great if an extremely narcissistic man actually said that out loud to a load of women who wanted to sleep with him.

Then they all walk off and completely ignore him.

Yeah, it would be nice. ;)

What I'm trying to say also is that people can pretend to take offence for political, social, or other gain. It's an intimidatory technique also used by some very unpleasant folk.



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30 Jan 2013, 5:37 am

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However, according to the men's rights activists, misogynists, and other frustrated male cranks who coined this phrase, creep shaming is a weapon that women (or feminists in particular) use to persecute men, and an example of female privilege. The term is a takeoff on "slut shaming", and is used to suggest that the man is being made to feel ashamed just for being male rather than the specific context of how he has behaved, and that the women shaming him are saying that they don't want men to flirt with women at all. Needless to say, this is BS, since the implication is that, um... creepiness isn't bad, or something.

essentially, "creep shaming" is the notion that calling a man creepy in any context is a weapon and this practice should be stopped.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming


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30 Jan 2013, 5:52 am

If someone didn't do anything wrong (didn't harm another), it's bullying.

Doesn't matter the sex.



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30 Jan 2013, 6:04 am

hyperlexian wrote:
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However, according to the men's rights activists, misogynists, and other frustrated male cranks who coined this phrase, creep shaming is a weapon that women (or feminists in particular) use to persecute men, and an example of female privilege. The term is a takeoff on "slut shaming", and is used to suggest that the man is being made to feel ashamed just for being male rather than the specific context of how he has behaved, and that the women shaming him are saying that they don't want men to flirt with women at all. Needless to say, this is BS, since the implication is that, um... creepiness isn't bad, or something.

essentially, "creep shaming" is the notion that calling a man creepy in any context is a weapon and this practice should be stopped.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming


i was going to post this random definition for the lulz and then go and find a legitimate source to discuss, but i couldn't find one. apparently... it was actually an MRA blogger that coined the term in response to a feminist woman who blogged about a creepy date. he likened the "creepy" label to "slut shaming", and the internets have been afire ever since.

feminists mostly argue that they are not parallel because women are slut shamed in court or in media if they are victims of sexual assault, and the creep label doesn't have any similar context. creepiness is more of a method of social shunning, which the word slut is definitely also used for, so it works in that way, but the word slut is used as more of a weapon above and beyond interpersonal relationships.


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techstepgenr8tion
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30 Jan 2013, 7:35 am

Tequila wrote:
What I'm trying to say also is that people can pretend to take offence for political, social, or other gain. It's an intimidatory technique also used by some very unpleasant folk.

Yeah, I don't draw a gender line on odious/churlish behavior.

Most, I mean 97-98% of women aren't like this, perhaps 7% seem to battle an urge to a greater or lesser extent and win either by the skin of their teeth or make it nearly unoticeable, the other 90% the guy has to be doing something pretty messes up and even then they're not wild about saying anything. It is a shame when and if we remember that 2-3% as if they really matter all that much but, I think that percent still just falls within the margin of churlishness.



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30 Jan 2013, 8:27 am

hyperlexian wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Quote:
However, according to the men's rights activists, misogynists, and other frustrated male cranks who coined this phrase, creep shaming is a weapon that women (or feminists in particular) use to persecute men, and an example of female privilege. The term is a takeoff on "slut shaming", and is used to suggest that the man is being made to feel ashamed just for being male rather than the specific context of how he has behaved, and that the women shaming him are saying that they don't want men to flirt with women at all. Needless to say, this is BS, since the implication is that, um... creepiness isn't bad, or something.

essentially, "creep shaming" is the notion that calling a man creepy in any context is a weapon and this practice should be stopped.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming


i was going to post this random definition for the lulz and then go and find a legitimate source to discuss, but i couldn't find one. apparently... it was actually an MRA blogger that coined the term in response to a feminist woman who blogged about a creepy date. he likened the "creepy" label to "slut shaming", and the internets have been afire ever since.

feminists mostly argue that they are not parallel because women are slut shamed in court or in media if they are victims of sexual assault, and the creep label doesn't have any similar context. creepiness is more of a method of social shunning, which the word slut is definitely also used for, so it works in that way, but the word slut is used as more of a weapon above and beyond interpersonal relationships.


I wouldn't necessarily trust that definition. Rational Wiki was initially set up as a satirical website to mock Consevapedia and debunk creationism and fundamentalism, which is mostly what it's good at. However, a definition like that is probably mostly based on a matter of opinion by the authors and it doesn't have the same standard for sources like Wikipedia does for instance, the site was never set up as an encyclopedia.

I would agree that "creep shaming" and "slut shaming" aren't the same. However, if the word "creep" was only used for people who were potentially dangerous then I wouldn't have a problem with it (and I still don't if it's in that context). The problem is that it isn't always used way and people get called that when they didn't do anything wrong.



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30 Jan 2013, 8:30 am

Jono wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily trust that definition. Rational Wiki was initially set up as a satirical website to mock Consevapedia and debunk creationism and fundamentalism, which is mostly what it's good at. However, a definition like that is probably mostly based on a matter of opinion by the authors and it doesn't have the same standard for sources like Wikipedia does for instance, the site was never set up as an encyclopedia.


Yup - it's a polemical piece.



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30 Jan 2013, 8:31 am

Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Quote:
However, according to the men's rights activists, misogynists, and other frustrated male cranks who coined this phrase, creep shaming is a weapon that women (or feminists in particular) use to persecute men, and an example of female privilege. The term is a takeoff on "slut shaming", and is used to suggest that the man is being made to feel ashamed just for being male rather than the specific context of how he has behaved, and that the women shaming him are saying that they don't want men to flirt with women at all. Needless to say, this is BS, since the implication is that, um... creepiness isn't bad, or something.

essentially, "creep shaming" is the notion that calling a man creepy in any context is a weapon and this practice should be stopped.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming


i was going to post this random definition for the lulz and then go and find a legitimate source to discuss, but i couldn't find one. apparently... it was actually an MRA blogger that coined the term in response to a feminist woman who blogged about a creepy date. he likened the "creepy" label to "slut shaming", and the internets have been afire ever since.

feminists mostly argue that they are not parallel because women are slut shamed in court or in media if they are victims of sexual assault, and the creep label doesn't have any similar context. creepiness is more of a method of social shunning, which the word slut is definitely also used for, so it works in that way, but the word slut is used as more of a weapon above and beyond interpersonal relationships.


I wouldn't necessarily trust that definition. Rational Wiki was initially set up as a satirical website to mock Consevapedia and debunk creationism and fundamentalism, which is mostly what it's good at. However, a definition like that is probably mostly based on a matter of opinion by the authors and it doesn't have the same standard for sources like Wikipedia does for instance, the site was never set up as an encyclopedia.

i agree it's not a legitimate source, but the phrase itself is rather dubious, it seems, which makes it difficult to track down anything useful. can you find anything better?


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30 Jan 2013, 8:44 am

I don't actually like the term myself. I think "creep-smearing" works a lot better.



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30 Jan 2013, 8:46 am

I'm rather fond of this article's take on the subject: http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-rea ... led-creepy

Quote:
At the heart of the "anti-creep shaming campaign" is a concerted effort to discourage women from relying on their instincts to protect themselves from harm [...] Calling a dude "creepy" labels him as a potential threat; a creep may not be imminently violent, but there's almost always a sense that he shows consistent disregard for a woman's physical or psychological space. This is why, as Wakeman wrote, "it's a really freaking dangerous idea to twist a woman's open, honest communication about her boundaries/expectations into ‘creep shaming' that victimizes men."



Last edited by ruckus on 30 Jan 2013, 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Jan 2013, 8:50 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Quote:
However, according to the men's rights activists, misogynists, and other frustrated male cranks who coined this phrase, creep shaming is a weapon that women (or feminists in particular) use to persecute men, and an example of female privilege. The term is a takeoff on "slut shaming", and is used to suggest that the man is being made to feel ashamed just for being male rather than the specific context of how he has behaved, and that the women shaming him are saying that they don't want men to flirt with women at all. Needless to say, this is BS, since the implication is that, um... creepiness isn't bad, or something.

essentially, "creep shaming" is the notion that calling a man creepy in any context is a weapon and this practice should be stopped.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming


i was going to post this random definition for the lulz and then go and find a legitimate source to discuss, but i couldn't find one. apparently... it was actually an MRA blogger that coined the term in response to a feminist woman who blogged about a creepy date. he likened the "creepy" label to "slut shaming", and the internets have been afire ever since.

feminists mostly argue that they are not parallel because women are slut shamed in court or in media if they are victims of sexual assault, and the creep label doesn't have any similar context. creepiness is more of a method of social shunning, which the word slut is definitely also used for, so it works in that way, but the word slut is used as more of a weapon above and beyond interpersonal relationships.


I wouldn't necessarily trust that definition. Rational Wiki was initially set up as a satirical website to mock Consevapedia and debunk creationism and fundamentalism, which is mostly what it's good at. However, a definition like that is probably mostly based on a matter of opinion by the authors and it doesn't have the same standard for sources like Wikipedia does for instance, the site was never set up as an encyclopedia.

i agree it's not a legitimate source, but the phrase itself is rather dubious, it seems, which makes it difficult to track down anything useful. can you find anything better?


I'm not sure that there is a legitimate source, if you try to look discussions of it, you'll mostly find blog articles. I agree that the phrase is dubious, it's not something that's commonly used. I found this blog article which I think is more impartial but I'm not sure that it's much better as a source:

http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/is-creep-shaming-real/



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30 Jan 2013, 8:53 am

why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied. the problem is that we don't know if it is used rightfully in any case, as we can't see the situation from the eyes of the person applying the label.

i've had it applied to me as a woman, so it isn't a purely gendered term. i accept that some of my behaviours can be seen as creepy - i take that risk as a human being in a social world that i don't fully understand. but i respect the right of other people to protect themselves by applying that label to me as they see fit. their protection trumps my butthurt.


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30 Jan 2013, 8:58 am

I tend to avoid total strangers because I dont know if they would think of me as creepy for no reason or not because of this.


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30 Jan 2013, 9:00 am

hyperlexian wrote:
why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied. the problem is that we don't know if it is used rightfully in any case, as we can't see the situation from the eyes of the person applying the label.

i've had it applied to me as a woman, so it isn't a purely gendered term. i accept that some of my behaviours can be seen as creepy - i take that risk as a human being in a social world that i don't fully understand. but i respect the right of other people to protect themselves by applying that label to me as they see fit. their protection trumps my butthurt.

I agree. I've been called creepy in the past (as well as similar things in as many words) and although it hurt at the time it allowed me to step back and evaluate just what I was doing to make people so uncomfortable.



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30 Jan 2013, 9:02 am

hyperlexian wrote:
why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied.


But behaving creepily according to whom?! That's the point. A person could be called a creep simply because the person using the label didn't like his/her looks, or his/her smell, or his/her colour or religion, or anything like that or simply because he looks slightly out of place according to one person out of 30. It could actually be absolutely nothing to do with the person's behaviour at all, but it could be a projection issue.

"Creep smearing" is more to the point. It doesn't mean that all men are creeps all the time, and there are those that definitely do deserve the label, but also that some men are called it for no good reason.



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30 Jan 2013, 9:15 am

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied.


But behaving creepily according to whom?! That's the point. A person could be called a creep simply because the person using the label didn't like his/her looks, or his/her smell, or his/her colour or religion, or anything like that or simply because he looks slightly out of place according to one person out of 30. It could actually be absolutely nothing to do with the person's behaviour at all, but it could be a projection issue.

"Creep smearing" is more to the point. It doesn't mean that all men are creeps all the time, and there are those that definitely do deserve the label, but also that some men are called it for no good reason.

yes, it is subjective - the person applying the label gets to decide if the person is behaving creepily or not. if i (for example only, as i have never told someone they are creepy) am telling a person, "stop acing like that. you are making me uncomfortable. it's creepy," then all that matters in the analysis of creepiness is what i feel, not what anyone else thinks, because the only people involved are me and the person creeping me out.

if i decide to tell all my friends about this creepy person, but then i describe behaviour that doesn't actually come across as creepy though.... the label won't stick. it's not like one person says to another, "J is a creep" and everyone takes that at face value. they ask for reasons, evidence, examples. and then they make their own decision. i would just end up looking ridiculous if i applied the label to someone who didn't actually act creepy. in this sort of case, i would be trying to do my friends a favour but it can backfire if i am not careful.

i think an insult that has no reason behind it could be a smear, but this shouldn't really apply in most cases, when it is properly used.


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