Do You Feel like you have the personality of one party, and

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zacb
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06 Apr 2013, 2:55 pm

I am not referring to the homesteaders, but a policy. Assuming no one else claimed the land, for instance, Antartica (extreme example I know), and someone went there and secured it and put up a dwelling there, then it would be theirs. Now, if someone went up there and someone dwelled there, yet murdered and took their stuff, that would be wrong, like in the case of the Native Americans. But, if you payed them, like the quakers did, that would not be wrong. Ithink we have a tad bit of agreement lol.



dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 3:04 pm

So the first thing we should do is figure out who came about what property in which manner. And divorce owners from whatever they acquired illegitimately. That party sounds fun.


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zacb
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06 Apr 2013, 3:07 pm

f**k you. I wish anarchist would actually be logical for once. But I guess when the state comes knocking at your door, an dthrows you away, it was woth idealogical "pureness".



dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 3:15 pm

I am being logical. Most property in this world has been acquired through exploitation and theft. I refuse to support a system that will respect and then magnify the current wealth disparities and power imbalances.


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zacb
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06 Apr 2013, 3:21 pm

What about Mark Cuban, did he rob anyone? Or did he create a broadcast mechanism for the internet, and someone decided to give him resources. Is he a thief? Or what about someone who sells on ebay? Are they evil?



dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

Can this happen in an ancap society?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/american-d ... ce/5329966


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zacb
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06 Apr 2013, 3:38 pm

I agree that was insensitive, but I believe that can happen under any system. But then again, would SunTrust, or any bank for that manner have power if corporations were not a reality, and if a federal reserve kept pumping them with money, stealing it from people who owned those bills?



dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 3:43 pm

You're completely incoherent.


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zacb
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06 Apr 2013, 3:48 pm

No, you are.



Mike1
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06 Apr 2013, 5:59 pm

I don't think anarchy could work at all in large, modern societies. In many small, tightly knit communities, it could probably work though. I've observed this for myself when I went to a small town in Maine. No one there has to worry about locking their doors, and the few police officers that are there are all volunteers. There is no real, formal law enforcement in this town, yet the system works because everyone there knows and trusts each other. People can violate many laws there and most likely nothing would happen to them. The local restaurant there was selling liquor without a license, but the volunteer police officers don't care. People there are just trustworthy enough to not violate laws in ways which would be harmful to other people. They only violate the law responsibly. This town isn't officially an anarchic society, but I picture that this is kind of what a successful anarchic society would look like.

In large, modern societies this wouldn't work though. Not everyone knows each other, so not everyone trusts or is concerned with each other. Not everyone in the society can get to know everyone else in the society, and be made to understand their circumstances. The only way to keep the society stable is to have strong law enforcement. The only alternative to hierarchy in these societies is chaos. The way in which the hierarchy is stratified can be changed, but it can never be eliminated. Since it can never be eliminated, people within the society will always be exploited in one way or another, not that anarchy can guarantee that no one will be exploited either. The only way to fix this would be if all of the people within the society somehow became perfect beings. That's the only way that any society can ever become perfect.



dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 7:35 pm

An anarchist society would be all within its rights to exercise legitimate coercive power in order to prevent crime.


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naturalplastic
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06 Apr 2013, 8:27 pm

zacb wrote:
To reply to the first post: in other words, treat it like two people living together. I imagine there would need to be some contracts, but they could be handled apart from marriage. So basically, the only thing amarriage would mean would be commitment, gay, straight, or otherwise. So basically, with the exception of property and other matters which would require contracts, just leave it alone.

.


Are you from a non English speaking country?
It was your choice of word -not what you're saying- that puzzled me.

I think that you meant "marriage should be a private DEAL", not "ORDEAL".

A 'deal' is an agreement. An "Ordeal" is a bad experience ( I hope that you're aware of that).

Calling it an '"Ordeal" struck my funny bone.

But I couldnt tell whether you MEANT it to be funny or not ( or whether it was a typo or what).


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Mike1
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06 Apr 2013, 9:17 pm

dionysian wrote:
An anarchist society would be all within its rights to exercise legitimate coercive power in order to prevent crime.


Yes, but in an anarchist society, what is criminal would be defined only by the better judgement of the authorities. It's very unlikely that authorities everywhere would unanimously agree to a formal set of laws without a central government to enforce them. The people above those authorities on the chain of hierarchy would no longer exist, therefore there would be no one to force them to do anything, unless the people in their societies decided that they were unworthy to be peacekeepers. Once an anarchic society is created, you can't decide what the people in that society are going to do, because that would be governing, which isn't anarchy. The society takes on a life of its own and people decide for themselves what they want to do.



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06 Apr 2013, 10:18 pm

dionysian wrote:
Anarchism has nothing to do with force whatsoever. Although most self proclaimed ancaps (read: right wing libertarians) love to talk about the state having a "monopoly on force." They user that line of thinking to abolish the state completely to allow the capitalists more freedom to exploit and enslave society. Basically just American style right wing libertarianism pushed to its logical conclusion.

Socialism being forced on somebody is a non sequitur in most cases. The only ones it would be forced on are the capitalists. The privileged minority. It might have to be done so violently. I'd be more than happy with that.

Private property is a coercive tool of subordination/oppression. Capitalism would dissolve as soon as the state wither away. The state is what allows ownership of land and production to happen. So if the state were to disappear, there would be no one stopping workers from self managing. The manager could yell all he wants but he can't fire anyone anymore, because he no longer has a monopoly of violence over the workplace. The so called 'anarcho'-capitalists would want to bring back statism, just under the name of private defense agencys.



RushKing
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06 Apr 2013, 10:35 pm

Mike1 wrote:
dionysian wrote:
An anarchist society would be all within its rights to exercise legitimate coercive power in order to prevent crime.


Yes, but in an anarchist society, what is criminal would be defined only by the better judgement of the authorities. It's very unlikely that authorities everywhere would unanimously agree to a formal set of laws without a central government to enforce them. The people above those authorities on the chain of hierarchy would no longer exist, therefore there would be no one to force them to do anything, unless the people in their societies decided that they were unworthy to be peacekeepers. Once an anarchic society is created, you can't decide what the people in that society are going to do, because that would be governing, which isn't anarchy. The society takes on a life of its own and people decide for themselves what they want to do.

An anarchist society would have anarchist law, otherwise it wouldn't be anarchist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_law



ruveyn
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07 Apr 2013, 8:45 am

zacb wrote:
To me, I feel like a paleo-conservative inside a libertarians body. I am 100% anarcho-capitalist, and I can relate to that wing, but I don't relate so much to the moderate wing. I agree on cutting spending, and on generally getting government out of people's lives, even on social issues. But on certain issues, I just can't agree. I agree thing slike the morning after pill and other medications like that should be legal, but I just disagree on the abortion issue. And on gay marriage, I think a third way solution should come about. Perhaps legalizing gay marriage, but no tforcing businesses or religious orginizations to partake in it. It just seems like many libertarians took the kool aid. In all reality, marriage should be a private ordeal, bu tlibertarians go with consensus, instead of going against the trend. It is kind of funny, I have more in common with a drunk comedian (Doug Stanhope), thN the main libertarian party. Do you think there is a schism between anarcho-capitalist and moderate libertrians? Is one more left, and the other more right oriented. Has something ever happened to you like this?


Poor fellow. You are in irregularly shaped peg looking for an irregularly shaped hole.

ruveyn