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GGPViper
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13 Apr 2013, 10:22 am

Tequila wrote:
Ah - OBJECT, the anti-prostitution puritan wing of feminism. They can go to hell.

Groups like this have no wish to take on board the experiences of sex workers who are actually quite happy in their job and have lots of fun doing it. They have a singular goal in mind, which is to make prostitution illegal.

Filthy lies, all of it!

... you forgot their crusade against lap dances, lad's mags and beauty pageants.



ScrewyWabbit
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13 Apr 2013, 10:31 am

Conceptually, I'm in favor of legalizing prostitution. The arguments usually made against it (morality, disease, demeaning to women) are either invalid or easily solvable if it were to be legal. In the case of disease, we'd be better off if it were legal and we could do something about it like testing.

But at the same time, I do think there are good reasons to keep it from becoming too prevalent. Frankly, as another poster said, some of us like sex but don't like relationships. In a societal sense, there is value to people having relationships - kids being raised in stable families, for one - plus the fact that people being in committed relationships is just generally better for society, I think - imagine what society would be like if we were all young and single with no responsibilities. (by the way, I'm completely in favor of gay marriage - one reason for marriage is to raise a family but its not at all the only reason). Paying for sex is easier than building a relationship of which sex is just one part, and fulfills an immediate need. Generally, its not good if people just go around paying for sex instead of having relationships with one another - then they'll never have relationships with each other. So while prostitution shouldn't be illegal, it should cost enough money that demand for it will be tempered to the point where visiting a prostitute would be an occasional splurge, not a relationship substitute.



neilson_wheels
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13 Apr 2013, 10:31 am

Because there are some "happy hookers" the massive problems experienced by street girls should be ignored?



GGPViper
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13 Apr 2013, 10:53 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
Because there are some "happy hookers" the massive problems experienced by street girls should be ignored?

No, they should not. But why harass the "happy hookers" because of problems they do not experience?

Its funny, BTW. We don't judge the justification of accountants, carpenters or doctors on the basis of the "happiness".

Why apply this distinction exclusively to prostitution?



fueledbycoffee
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13 Apr 2013, 11:01 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
Because there are some "happy hookers" the massive problems experienced by street girls should be ignored?


No! What we need to do is examine what makes a "happy hooker", and encourage that. I have a feeling I can already guess a few.

-Customers not being permitted to abused them
-Some choice in their customers
-Not being abused by their boss, pimp, whatever
-Not being exposed to a great many diseases
-A standard of etiquette being observed by customers on pain of denial of service

Guess what, by legalizing, regulating, blood-testing, etc., all of those would be taken care of. Pimps or madames would be subject to the same boss/employee rules as anyone else and same for customers. Independent Callgirls can choose their customers, and often do, but it'll be a lot easier without the possibility of an undercover cop. When they're required to get blood tests, the danger of illness becomes slimmer.

There will always be hookers. If there's a demand, people will provide a supply. Why continue to penalize in a system that makes it virtually assured that a large number are going to be miserable?



neilson_wheels
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13 Apr 2013, 11:03 am

I'm not in favour of prostitution being illegal and I made that clear in my post.

I just used some stats that were conveniently displayed on a site that some object to.

Happy accountants, happy carpenters and happy doctors just don't have the same ring.

Insert beaten, abused or illegal in front of any of the above occupations for an alternate view.



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13 Apr 2013, 11:07 am

It is a vice, and as such, people will do it regardless of legality.

Legalize, regulate, and tax is the answer for any vice.


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neilson_wheels
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13 Apr 2013, 11:13 am

I would like to think that there is an easy solution too but afraid it's just not true.

Two examples of legalisation, Amsterdam and New Zealand do not work so smoothly.



Tequila
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13 Apr 2013, 11:20 am

GGPViper wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Ah - OBJECT, the anti-prostitution puritan wing of feminism. They can go to hell.

Groups like this have no wish to take on board the experiences of sex workers who are actually quite happy in their job and have lots of fun doing it. They have a singular goal in mind, which is to make prostitution illegal.

Filthy lies, all of it!

... you forgot their crusade against lap dances, lad's mags and beauty pageants.


How could I forget that!



neilson_wheels
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13 Apr 2013, 11:39 am

Same stats, different web site, including sources.

http://www.avaproject.org.uk/our-resour ... ution.aspx



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13 Apr 2013, 11:41 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
I would like to think that there is an easy solution too but afraid it's just not true.

Two examples of legalisation, Amsterdam and New Zealand do not work so smoothly.


Proof?


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Ancalagon
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13 Apr 2013, 11:54 am

GGPViper wrote:
Its funny, BTW. We don't judge the justification of accountants, carpenters or doctors on the basis of the "happiness".

Why apply this distinction exclusively to prostitution?

True, but sex is fundamentally different than nailing together two pieces of wood. If I force you to nail together two pieces of wood, you aren't emotionally damaged and I don't go to jail. If a carpenter teaches his 5 year old son how to nail two pieces of wood together, and then frequently engages in this activity with him, then again, nobody is harmed and nobody goes to jail for it.

A hooker being unhappy because she finds her job a bit boring is not fundamentally the distinction that people are trying to make when they talk about "happiness" in this context. If you find this word choice less than enlightening, I will have to agree with you.


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GGPViper
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13 Apr 2013, 12:00 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Its funny, BTW. We don't judge the justification of accountants, carpenters or doctors on the basis of the "happiness".

Why apply this distinction exclusively to prostitution?

True, but sex is fundamentally different than nailing together two pieces of wood.

Quite a lot of sex workers disagree with that statement. Unless you have first hand experience in the field of prostitution, I'll take their word over yours every time.



Ancalagon
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13 Apr 2013, 12:16 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:
I do think there are good reasons to keep it from becoming too prevalent. Frankly, as another poster said, some of us like sex but don't like relationships. In a societal sense, there is value to people having relationships - kids being raised in stable families, for one - plus the fact that people being in committed relationships is just generally better for society, I think - imagine what society would be like if we were all young and single with no responsibilities.

QFT (said the young single guy with no responsibilities :D )

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So while prostitution shouldn't be illegal, it should cost enough money that demand for it will be tempered to the point where visiting a prostitute would be an occasional splurge, not a relationship substitute.

I don't know that this would be economically feasible. Given supply and demand and the fact that some of them are doing it to scrape by, I don't think there is any way to make it legal in such a way that you can't get it relatively cheaply, unless you give up even trying to help the streetwalkers, who are the ones that most need the protection legalization might bring.


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Ancalagon
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13 Apr 2013, 12:19 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
True, but sex is fundamentally different than nailing together two pieces of wood.

Quite a lot of sex workers disagree with that statement.

Evidence?


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GGPViper
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13 Apr 2013, 12:32 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
True, but sex is fundamentally different than nailing together two pieces of wood.

Quite a lot of sex workers disagree with that statement.

Evidence?

http://www.iusw.org/iusw-who-we-are/