Why Hate Science?

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So far, 79% of the poll's respondents think that there is an anti-science conspiracy of one sort or another on WrongPlanet.

Don't hate me....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FIMvSp01C8[/youtube]

Why hate science? For the thrill of it!

This is what I mean about arrogance. You say it is harmful because you assume it is misinformation. If science doesn't have all the answers how can you prove that? Let other people decide for themselves, and logic will win out, it doesn't need our help. I am not afraid of pseudoscience because if it isn't practical then it won't yield results. No one will argue that science is useless because it has answered so many questions already and led to technology and so many other elegant ideas. This is undeniable proof.

In the case of evolution, I *KNOW* without question that the creationists and intelligent design people are spreading misinformation about the evidence for evolution. We have the fossils. We win. I would have more respect for their position if they admitted that the evidence for evolution exists, but instead they ignore much of it and deny or distort what they do not ignore. Creationists are also notorious for quoting scientists and other famous people out of context in such a way as to make it look the person being quoted is saying something that is the OPPOSITE of what they actually said when you read the quotation in the full context. This is known as "quote mining" and it is blatantly dishonest.

And yes, pseudoscience will not yield any results, but the danger is that by suppressing the teaching of real science the way the anti-evolution people do they are also preventing real science from producing any results because they want every American to be as ignorant of how science works and as misinformed about the evidence as they are. This "controversy" is NOT a scientific one. It is entirely a religious and social controversy. And even though it is a minority of religious denominations that have trouble accepting the fact evolution happens, that minority is so loud and vocal and persuasive in lobbying school boards and politicians that they are doing a good job at seriously dumbing down our whole nation. This could be disastrous for the present and future of our nation, our species and our planet.

Sure people COULD decide for themselves IF they were given accurate information on this subject. But most people who deny the fact of evolution do so because they have been LIED to about it by sources they trust and they never bothered to check the facts for themselves. Garbage in, garbage out.

i am really confused by you. you seem to be saying that you support science, yet there are unsolvable problems out there that science can't explain. are you talking epistemology here?

how is acknowledging the harm in pseudoscientific beliefs and doctrines arrogant? it is bad and ultimately dangerous for society to perpetuate myths and fantasies, and it does nothing but drag us back into the past.

more often then not, "logic" does not win out, and people go even further into the rabbit hole with their beliefs. people will do what they want, though. just because that is the case doesn't mean that it's right to condemn and obscure a scientific theory based on evidence for not fitting into one's worldview based on Leprechauns/Aliens/Homeopathy.

you're also reciting a classic trope of the anti-science crowd when you say "If science doesn't have all the answers how can you prove that?" there are lots of questions out there, and many of them are as yet unanswered by science. maybe one day they will be; we can't know for certain. and then there is the epistemological problem of wondering what is "knowable" in total. i think quantum physics is a pretty good example of an outwardly weird and nonsensical system at first impression, but that doesn't mean that the workings behind it are entirely unintelligible to man... if not now, someday. i think that the main drive behind science is to find the explanations behind things that are "mysterious". i am very much of the mindset of Carl Sagan, as science does not rob the world of grandeur for me; it enhances the grandeur of the world.


i'm not trying to be unclear or mean to you... but... and this goes back to my first paragraph; i feel like the words "Does Not Compute" are very meaningful right now in talking to you.

i have never understood how people can get offended by hearing that "evolution" lead up to humans, and all the other life on this planet... nor can i understand how the idea of predestination said by very far away bodies of superhot gas would be an exciting or enticing thing to believe in... predestination seems rather dull and quite cruel...

OH YEAH?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty33v7UYYbw[/youtube]

"Anti-science" is a propaganda phrase fraught with emotion not reason these days.

There is a difference between things that are false and things that are not yet proven. Science has to keep an open mind lest they fall onto the wrong side of that line. Don't be too hasty to label everything a pseudoscience. You seem like you have your mind made up when it comes to astrology, and that it isn't possible this person on the bus actually does feel something that you cannot. I don't believe in it either, but I think you should be more careful when you criticize because one day someone might actually know something you don't. A current lack of evidence doesn't make such things impossible.

I think the progress we've made proves that logic does win out eventually. We didn't get here by luck, we reasoned our way out of the cave man days. I have faith that rationality is more powerful than faith. Science will win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem

^ That is really cute!

I think what Tsunami is trying to say (I mean how I interpreted what Tsunami wrote) is that...

Some things we think of as "metaphysics" or other "pseudoscience" might just be things we can't yet explain with our current level of scientific knowledge, but might be able to one day; so just because we don't have proof of something NOW doesn't mean it's impossible (or possible for that matter... we simply don't know!). Keep both an open mind and curious spirit!

SCIENCE!

Because like, numbers are confusing and stuff.

No, they think it's anti-Fnord.

Look, I think we all know how much you love attacking religion and delight in "converting" people away from any church... so what makes your actions more noble than the door-knockers you assume all the religious to be.
Just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them stupid, against science, or delusional.

Some church-backed academies (like Loma Linda U) pump out some of the best-educated doctors and scientists in the world. Just because you're against sky-man, doesn't mean someone who believes in the intangible is incapable of biology or physics to the highest degree.

okay... i think that we're just saying the same basic thing, but with different ways of getting our points across. i never said that things that are not yet proven are the same as being false. i am aware of the distinction, and i believe that i made that clear. i am fully confident that i will one day know what i do not know now, provided that there is evidence that has withstood or been built upon by the proper methods. you're right about "current lack of evidence", and i have said that evidence is the key word. "provide evidence, or GTFO". if players in the world of homeopathy that want so badly for it to be a science, and they provide real evidence for their claims, then they can play with the big kids. it stands that as yet, they have not produced or provided any evidence that supports their claims without the data being fudged. in that, i feel comfortable saying that homeopathy is a pseudoscience until proven otherwise...

so, in the case of astrology... why is it wrong to criticize it? it hasn't done too much to warrant claiming it has any benefits, beyond giving us the early days of astronomy. i am more than comfortable with saying that astrology is a pseudoscience, due to the lack of evidence behind the claims.

and i'm sorry, but given the amount of people in the world today that believe in things like Unicorns and shape- shifting Lizardman overlords, and all the people who deny serious issues like climate change, HIV, or energy sustainability... and the scale at which these beliefs are at... i don't know that logic and rationality are winning out. in a lot of cases, these people are not in the majority, but there are still enough of them to make me shudder and despair.



this is true, and what i have been saying. it seems that there's a breakdown in my ability to communicate these things. this is not new to me. i have a pretty close friend that i talk to a lot about these things, and he and i get into hours and hours of talking in circles, saying essentially the same thing, but in our own different ways.

Last edited by donothing1979 on 17 Apr 2013, 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

tell me more...

What, wait... people BELIEVE in unicorns??