Why have Most Liberals Become What They Hate?

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Dox47
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03 Oct 2013, 2:13 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Not all Libertarians are in favor of a free market.

Of course not, small 'l' libertarians are hardly homogenous, it's one of the charms of the movement. I do doubt that the anti free market group is all that large though, as laissez faire economics are pretty du jour in the philosophy.

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Fnord
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03 Oct 2013, 2:16 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Personal freedom without personal accountability is Anarchy, not Liberalism.

Did I say anything about no personal accountability?

Sorry, Dox - I was responding to the person you responded to. I shoulda edited it a little better. :oops:

Personal freedom, tempered with personal accountability, in a free market is (my idea of) Libertarianism.

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03 Oct 2013, 2:18 pm

Fnord wrote:

Sorry, Dox - I was responding to the person you responded to. I shoulda edited it a little better. :oops:

Personal freedom, tempered with personal accountability, in a free market is (my idea of) Libertarianism.

Ahh, that makes sense. I was confused, as you'd defined libertarianism that way in another thread, so I didn't know why that comment we addressed to me.

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RandyG
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03 Oct 2013, 2:49 pm

There's a classic scholarly look at how "liberal" came to mean "totalitarian": The Decline of American Liberalism, by Arthur Eckirch.

androbot2084
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03 Oct 2013, 3:16 pm

Under conservativism the poor are not entitled to anything.

redriverronin
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03 Oct 2013, 3:43 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

Under conservativism the poor are not entitled to anything.

That seems like a very broad and encompassing statement that could never be verified.

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03 Oct 2013, 4:10 pm

redriverronin wrote:

androbot2084 wrote:

Under conservativism the poor are not entitled to anything.

That seems like a very broad and encompassing statement that could never be verified.

He does that a lot.

Under one form of conservatism, "the poor" have every possible opportunity to better themselves before the age of 18. After that, they are adults, and legally responsible for their own actions.

Under one form of liberalism, "the poor" are all "victims" under the direct care of the government, which decides who gets what entitlements for the rest of their lives.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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03 Oct 2013, 7:32 pm

Dox47 wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Not all Libertarians are in favor of a free market.

Yeah, sorry... I was having a weird morning. I really should stay out of debates before I've consumed all my coffee. :lol:

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Master_Pedant
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04 Oct 2013, 12:49 am

The_Walrus wrote:

It's hard to describe the Democratic party as left wing- they're a party of low tax! And they're not libertarian either.

The leftwing of the Labour Party was for low (no) poll taxes.

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04 Oct 2013, 1:12 am

Dox47 wrote:

Why have Most Liberals Become What They Hate?

Easy, their guy got elected, and suddenly all the bad things W did don't seem quite so bad now that it's Obama doing them. Anyone seen the anti-war left lately?

The far left is really, really ticked with Obama, actually; he talks the talk well enough that he (or at least his speechwriter) understands the argument, but his actions do not jibe in sync with his words.

Dox47
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04 Oct 2013, 4:44 am

LKL wrote:

he talks the talk well enough that he (or at least his speechwriter) understands the argument, but his actions do not jibe in sync with his words.

Yeah, I know; don't forget that I voted for the bastard the first time, but he only fooled me the once. I just can't believe how many people still buy his BS, I think that offends me nearly as much as the man himself.

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Delphiki
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04 Oct 2013, 4:49 am

Dox47 wrote:

LKL wrote:

he talks the talk well enough that he (or at least his speechwriter) understands the argument, but his actions do not jibe in sync with his words.

How was Romney a valid option? (The video does pertain)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSAGR0arBUo[/youtube]

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Dox47
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04 Oct 2013, 5:19 am

Delphiki wrote:

How was Romney a valid option? (The video does pertain)

You say that is if Romney was the only other guy running; I voted for Gary Johnson last year. Aaaand, before you even say it, the only reason it's a two party system is that too many people are afraid of the "evil" other side to risk a spoiler vote, so we're stuck with the as*holes until more people screw up the courage to risk their votes on outside candidates. Enjoy your turd sandwich.

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Delphiki
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04 Oct 2013, 5:24 am

Dox47 wrote:

Delphiki wrote:

How was Romney a valid option? (The video does pertain)

I also voted third party actually.

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Dox47
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04 Oct 2013, 5:29 am

Delphiki wrote:

I also voted third party actually.

Really? Who'd you go for? For me anyways, was the first vote I'd felt good about in years, no more lesser evil crap from then on.

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Delphiki
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04 Oct 2013, 5:37 am

Dox47 wrote:

Delphiki wrote:

I also voted third party actually.

Really? Who'd you go for? For me anyways, was the first vote I'd felt good about in years, no more lesser evil crap from then on.

Jill Stein. And I don't care if you have problems with her or think that decision was ridiculous. There was no way I could vote for Romney. Had some issues with Obama. I looked into Gary Johnson Platforms and just didn't agree with a lot of what he said. There were a lot of things that I did like about Gary Johnson, but the things I disagreed with trumped those points sadly.

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