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Politically/Socially Conservative or Liberal?
Politically and socially conservative 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Politically and socially liberal 62%  62%  [ 13 ]
Politically conservative and socially liberal 33%  33%  [ 7 ]
Politically liberal and socially conservative 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 21

wavecannon
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04 Oct 2013, 5:28 pm

Didn't vote in the poll because "politically liberal/conservative" is very ambiguous.

I know I'm left-wing enough to not "get" what people would have against say, the government manufacturing our denim jeans.

I don't consider myself to swing either way socially but I'm sure most people see me as more liberal than not. Being a antisocial curmudgeon can throw it off-balance though.



Goddard
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07 Oct 2013, 11:28 am

My philosophy of life,
follow always the middle path...
Is important to have a tolerant culture to embrace the divergent thinking and creativity but is also important to have a conservative politics to used moderate e assertive choices to the nation.



Jacoby
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07 Oct 2013, 11:51 am

Conservative and liberal are such warped terms, people could describe my positions as both extremely liberal and extremely conservative based on the definition you use. I believe in the maximum amount of freedom possible. Personal, economic, whatever.



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07 Oct 2013, 11:59 am

Jacoby wrote:
Conservative and liberal are such warped terms, people could describe my positions as both extremely liberal and extremely conservative based on the definition you use. I believe in the maximum amount of freedom possible. Personal, economic, whatever.
Are you a Libertarian :?:


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RushKing
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07 Oct 2013, 12:20 pm

I'm (mainy) a libertarian communist. I don't believe in markets or states. I believe private property is unnecessary, coercive and subordinative. I believe personal property is more reasonable. I don't believe in any third party arbitration or defense. I believe the community itself should create it's own rules. I believe each individual should be able to create their own curriculum and job from the bottom up. I believe in autonomy within the school and in the workplace. I think all unnecessary hierarchy should be abolished.



Magneto
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07 Oct 2013, 1:53 pm

What's the distinction between private and personal property?



Jacoby
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07 Oct 2013, 2:00 pm

Magneto wrote:
What's the distinction between private and personal property?


Personal property is their stuff that they don't want you to have and private property is your stuff that they want to take.



RushKing
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07 Oct 2013, 2:02 pm

Magneto wrote:
What's the distinction between private and personal property?
Personal property is something you occupy and directly use. Private property is something owned by a individual not intended for his or her direct personal use like a factory, office building, land for rent etc.



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07 Oct 2013, 2:14 pm

So you don't actually believe in property rights, only usage rights?

Why is owning a factory different from owning a house? What if I wanted to rent that house out to another person, would I suddenly lose ownership of it? What if it's something like a computer - say a server, which I'm not going to use for my personal use, but to maintain my business website?

What if I've built the factory building myself, and bought all the equipment? What if someone else built the factory building, and I bought it off them?

You can't draw a line and say, "this is personal property" and "this isn't" like that when it comes to manmade objects. Or at least, you can't claim in any way to be a libertarian if you do.

Now, I can understand people who don't believe land can be owned. I can see their point there. But setting some arbitrary limit on how much someone can keep what they've produced? Erm, no.



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07 Oct 2013, 2:32 pm

Magneto wrote:
So you don't actually believe in property rights, only usage rights?

Why is owning a factory different from owning a house? What if I wanted to rent that house out to another person, would I suddenly lose ownership of it? What if it's something like a computer - say a server, which I'm not going to use for my personal use, but to maintain my business website?

What if I've built the factory building myself, and bought all the equipment? What if someone else built the factory building, and I bought it off them?

You can't draw a line and say, "this is personal property" and "this isn't" like that when it comes to manmade objects. Or at least, you can't claim in any way to be a libertarian if you do.

Now, I can understand people who don't believe land can be owned. I can see their point there. But setting some arbitrary limit on how much someone can keep what they've produced? Erm, no.

Can you name one capitalist who built a whole factory by himself? Lets say you build one yourself. Would you have the ability to use it by yourself? The line drawn isn't arbitrary, It makes perfect sense. I believe you should be free to own a house, a server, but not a data center. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Libertarianism used to only mean anarchism before capitalists toke the word to use for their own agenda. If we are to abolish all unnecessary hierarchy, and maximize autonomy, liberty; abolition of private property is a perfectly reasonable course. Anarchism is not the freedom to subordinate and rule over others.



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07 Oct 2013, 3:29 pm

Employing someone =/= dominating and ruling over them. If they don't want to work for you, they can quit. You have this bizarre idea that employing someone is wrong, and so is trade...



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07 Oct 2013, 3:41 pm

Sure, you have the freedom to quit if you have a bad boss. But what if the job market is scarce? Then you just have the freedom to starve. Or what if your boss is a vindictive bastard who black lists you with other employers? Even to be between jobs with an amiable split from your work place means lack of income and security. That freedom to leave isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Oct 2013, 4:12 pm

Then go work for yourself. Or homestead some unused land. Or maybe go find a mutualist company that needs your skills. Then blacklist the employer and get them boycotted and driven out of business. It's a free market, after all.

Hence why established businesses often love the state, because it keeps the labour market under their control...



RushKing
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07 Oct 2013, 4:29 pm

Magneto wrote:
Employing someone =/= dominating and ruling over them. If they don't want to work for you, they can quit. You have this bizarre idea that employing someone is wrong, and so is trade...
If people are forced to sign YOUR contract to work at that factory you are definitely dominating, and that is a sign of third party violence. How else can an individual have a monopoly over something he can't occupy and use himself?!?!



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07 Oct 2013, 4:55 pm

Magneto wrote:
Then go work for yourself. Or homestead some unused land. Or maybe go find a mutualist company that needs your skills. Then blacklist the employer and get them boycotted and driven out of business. It's a free market, after all.

Hence why established businesses often love the state, because it keeps the labour market under their control...


Homesteading - - in this day and age? It was an almost impossible proposition back when my great grandparents, and their parents homesteaded the Western frontier, when free undeveloped land was far more plentiful, yet most who tried homesteading failed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Oct 2013, 5:11 pm

Yes. In this day an age. With modern techniques and knowledge. Obviously...

RushKing, no-one is "forced" to sign the contract in a free market. What you seem to want is to force them to not sign it... just like a petty statist.