12 Oct 2013, 9:14 pm
GoonSquad wrote:
... hopelessness and pessimism are huge drivers of addictive behavior (not to mention unnecessary misery) too. Rather than seeing negative events as permanent, pervasive and personalized, try to remember that most set backs are temporary, specific, and external. One of the great secrets of the universe, according to Epictetus is: "We are not disturbed by what happens to us, but by our thoughts about what happens to us." At some level, unhappiness is a choice.
Some folks would rather embrace misery than risk failure, but only in taking risks is there any chance of success.
It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
Thank you, William Shakespeare
Last edited by Fnord on 12 Oct 2013, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 9:15 pm
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12 Oct 2013, 9:18 pm
Fnord wrote:
[I had to change my attitude about my place in the world, and since then my fortunes have increased. There's no magic to it - where others see insurmountable obstacles, I see situations to overcome. Where others see failure, I see lessons. Where others see "sour grapes", I see the makings of fine wine. Where others see rejection, I see freedom from social oppression.Maybe it's because I was not diagnosed until the age of 54 that I never knew I was "supposed" to turn my back on the "Horatio Alger" meme. All that time, I should have been self-diagnosing, self-medicating, and blaming the big, bad, mean old world for all of my problems. Instead, I made the mistake of believing in myself and made the effort to be somebody, and ended up in the shameful situation of being successful ... poor, poor, pitiful me ... 
And now someone else is living in my mother's basement. Too bad for them!
And now someone else is living in my mother's basement. Too bad for them!it should be obvious that we don't all have your exceptional level of executive functioning, which is the reason that many of us are here on the forums in the first place, seeking commiseration at least and not bragging competition.
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12 Oct 2013, 9:20 pm
GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 9:27 pm
Fnord wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
... hopelessness and pessimism are huge drivers of addictive behavior (not to mention unnecessary misery) too. Rather than seeing negative events as permanent, pervasive and personalized, try to remember that most set backs are temporary, specific, and external. One of the great secrets of the universe, according to Epictetus is: "We are not disturbed by what happens to us, but by our thoughts about what happens to us." At some level, unhappiness is a choice.
Some folks would rather embrace misery than risk failure, but only in taking risks is there any chance of success.
It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
Thank you, William ShakespeareThe sage only concerns himself with what is wholly in his control. Doing that, he can never fail.
Only the fool thinks he can control the outside world.
12 Oct 2013, 9:32 pm
GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 9:40 pm
auntblabby wrote:
it takes strong executive functioning to easily make choices, and that is precisely what hamstrings so many of us here on the forums.
Yeah, I understand that. But what Epictetus is really saying is to make peace with where you are and don't wait till you're somewhere else to be happy. You can be happy anywhere. That's not really a hard choice once you make it.
“God has entrusted me with myself. No man is free who is not master of himself. A man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things. The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going.” ~Epictetus
Okay, that's enough proselytizing.
12 Oct 2013, 9:58 pm
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12 Oct 2013, 10:08 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's not a matter of choice. This is where genetics comes into play. Let's say someone gets a prescription for a drug like Percoset, for pain. After all the pills are gone, they crave more. They wish they could have a prescription forever so they seek out ways to get more Percoset. This could be a person with a loving, supportive family, social life, good job, everything therapists say people need to be happy but since they happen to have particular genes, they crave that Percoset and they find it but eventually it stops working like it once did and they feel like they can't function as well as they were (Percoset acts like a stimulant to some ) so they go onto something else that gives them the feeling the Percoset once did, something stronger.
There is really no such thing as an ideal environment for someone with these genes their mind, body, spirit craves this particular drug
There is really no such thing as an ideal environment for someone with these genes their mind, body, spirit craves this particular drug
Yes, there are people like this, but most are not as extreme. There's a continuum of susceptibility. (Also, I should not have used the word choose, it isn't a choice. Still, most healthy people would not become addicts.)
Quote:
and there are many people who come from really horrible environments who do not develop addictions, me, for instance. I have had Percoset and Demerol I have never been addicted to either of them. Vicodin either. I have no desire to go out of my way for any of these but if a Doc wants to prescribe them to me for some reason, I won't turn up my nose. I have a very casual attitude toward them bordering on indifference yet, according to the Rat Park experiment, I should be craving morphine because I am not being fulfilled in some way. Hogwash.
No.
Err...mmm... at least, I think, no... You're not a rat, are you? Sure, you could have genes that make you resistant, or you might have a more resilient psyche, or you might just not feel the need to alter your consciousness for any number of other reasons...
As a rule, things like boredom, poverty, pessimism, hopelessness, etc. put you at higher risk for addiction. More people than not, feeling those feelings, will try to self-medicate if they can, but not all.... some of the ones that do self-medicate will become addicts, others won't... That's just the complexity of people.
Here's my situation... I have two siblings who are addicts. One of them is recovering, one of them is dead. I have the genes.
Right now, I'm divorced, unemployed, my dog died a couple of weeks ago, I have two legs that don't work worth a damn, a pile of medical bills, constant pain, and as many percocets as can be legally prescribed at one time. Genetically and psychologically, I am at risk for addiction. I should be an addict, but I'm not an addict. I take one pill a day, at bedtime, if that...
Humans are diverse. We don't all behave the same way all the time.... Go figure.
Edit:
I keep adding bad stuff... It's been a hell of a year.
Last edited by GoonSquad on 12 Oct 2013, 10:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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12 Oct 2013, 10:11 pm
GoonSquad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it takes strong executive functioning to easily make choices, and that is precisely what hamstrings so many of us here on the forums.
Yeah, I understand that. But what Epictetus is really saying is to make peace with where you are and don't wait till you're somewhere else to be happy. You can be happy anywhere. That's not really a hard choice once you make it.
“God has entrusted me with myself. No man is free who is not master of himself. A man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things. The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going.” ~Epictetus
Okay, that's enough proselytizing.
I can dig it
13 Oct 2013, 9:57 am
GoonSquad wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's not a matter of choice. This is where genetics comes into play. Let's say someone gets a prescription for a drug like Percoset, for pain. After all the pills are gone, they crave more. They wish they could have a prescription forever so they seek out ways to get more Percoset. This could be a person with a loving, supportive family, social life, good job, everything therapists say people need to be happy but since they happen to have particular genes, they crave that Percoset and they find it but eventually it stops working like it once did and they feel like they can't function as well as they were (Percoset acts like a stimulant to some ) so they go onto something else that gives them the feeling the Percoset once did, something stronger.
There is really no such thing as an ideal environment for someone with these genes their mind, body, spirit craves this particular drug
There is really no such thing as an ideal environment for someone with these genes their mind, body, spirit craves this particular drug
Yes, there are people like this, but most are not as extreme. There's a continuum of susceptibility. (Also, I should not have used the word choose, it isn't a choice. Still, most healthy people would not become addicts.)
Quote:
and there are many people who come from really horrible environments who do not develop addictions, me, for instance. I have had Percoset and Demerol I have never been addicted to either of them. Vicodin either. I have no desire to go out of my way for any of these but if a Doc wants to prescribe them to me for some reason, I won't turn up my nose. I have a very casual attitude toward them bordering on indifference yet, according to the Rat Park experiment, I should be craving morphine because I am not being fulfilled in some way. Hogwash.
No.
Err...mmm... at least, I think, no... You're not a rat, are you? Sure, you could have genes that make you resistant, or you might have a more resilient psyche, or you might just not feel the need to alter your consciousness for any number of other reasons...
As a rule, things like boredom, poverty, pessimism, hopelessness, etc. put you at higher risk for addiction. More people than not, feeling those feelings, will try to self-medicate if they can, but not all.... some of the ones that do self-medicate will become addicts, others won't... That's just the complexity of people.
Here's my situation... I have two siblings who are addicts. One of them is recovering, one of them is dead. I have the genes.
Right now, I'm divorced, unemployed, my dog died a couple of weeks ago, I have two legs that don't work worth a damn, a pile of medical bills, constant pain, and as many percocets as can be legally prescribed at one time. Genetically and psychologically, I am at risk for addiction. I should be an addict, but I'm not an addict. I take one pill a day, at bedtime, if that...
Humans are diverse. We don't all behave the same way all the time.... Go figure.
Edit:
I keep adding bad stuff... It's been a hell of a year.
Sorry you've been having a bad year.
It seems we somewhat agree. Circumstances in life can lead to drug addiction if the genetic component is also present or no risk factors can be present, just the genetic component meaning a happy person from a good family can become addicted or alcoholic if the genes predisposition them.
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13 Oct 2013, 11:52 am
13 Oct 2013, 12:59 pm
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13 Oct 2013, 4:58 pm
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