What transgender activists don't want you to know...

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Lostathome
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13 Oct 2013, 2:22 pm

Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
While transsexuals deserve the same respect as everyone else and should not be marginalized, biologically speaking, MtF transsexuals are not "real" women per se. Idolizing Johnny Cash and wishing that I was a legendary southern rock / country singer, does not mean that I am a famous country singer.

Fair enough, as long as you pick a definition of real women (female biologically, anatomically, chromosomally, and hormonally) and stick to it. That mean no considering intersexed women as being real women, so no women with CAH or AIS, women who have had certain body parts removed etc.

Can I get that as a signed piece of paper, anyway? I just want to be able to show it back to you when total sex reassignment becomes possible. :lol:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPT1hmQV_6Q[/youtube]Burned, man. Burned.



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13 Oct 2013, 4:16 pm

Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
While transsexuals deserve the same respect as everyone else and should not be marginalized, biologically speaking, MtF transsexuals are not "real" women per se. Idolizing Johnny Cash and wishing that I was a legendary southern rock / country singer, does not mean that I am a famous country singer.

Fair enough, as long as you pick a definition of real women (female biologically, anatomically, chromosomally, and hormonally) and stick to it. That mean no considering intersexed women as being real women, so no women with CAH or AIS, women who have had certain body parts removed etc.

Can I get that as a signed piece of paper, anyway? I just want to be able to show it back to you when total sex reassignment becomes possible. :lol:


There are many factors that determine gender. There's the matter of chromosomes, but this can be overlooked if someone is completely female otherwise. There's also the matter of voice, skeletal structure, hand size, size of sweat glands, size of eyes, length of midsection of face, width of hips, etc.

[img][600:800]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/TransgenreatParis2005.JPG[/img]

Even in the most expensive and comprehensive transitions, there are still several dead giveaways that someone used to be a man.



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13 Oct 2013, 5:01 pm

thomas81 wrote:
many mtf's are experiencing their gender dysphoria since pre-pubescence, which knocks for six the idea that it is a mere sexual fantasy.

Conservative cultural conditioning forces them to rail against the dysphoria which is why they end up in marriages with children under the guise of heterosexual cis-men.


Prepubescent children do sort of have a sexuality, which is why kids can realise they're gay when they're 5 years old.

However, I do object to the whole argument that unless a transwoman was a 100% homo male before transition, then they must be motivated only by sexual fantasies. And if there is an element of sexual fantasy to it - so what? Why do people think it excludes other parts of your identity if you have a sexual attraction to it? People compartmentalise aspects of people's psyche too much.


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13 Oct 2013, 6:34 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
While transsexuals deserve the same respect as everyone else and should not be marginalized, biologically speaking, MtF transsexuals are not "real" women per se. Idolizing Johnny Cash and wishing that I was a legendary southern rock / country singer, does not mean that I am a famous country singer.

Fair enough, as long as you pick a definition of real women (female biologically, anatomically, chromosomally, and hormonally) and stick to it. That mean no considering intersexed women as being real women, so no women with CAH or AIS, women who have had certain body parts removed etc.

Can I get that as a signed piece of paper, anyway? I just want to be able to show it back to you when total sex reassignment becomes possible. :lol:


There are many factors that determine gender. There's the matter of chromosomes, but this can be overlooked if someone is completely female otherwise. There's also the matter of voice, skeletal structure, hand size, size of sweat glands, size of eyes, length of midsection of face, width of hips, etc.

Even in the most expensive and comprehensive transitions, there are still several dead giveaways that someone used to be a man.

*sigh* We've been through this before. If you're going to base whether someone is a man or a woman on their skeleton, then you're just going to have to accept that girls who transition before puberty are women, and that girls who have abnormally high testosterone which masculinises their features aren't real women.

It doesn't really bother me that you're inconsistent in your beliefs, it bothers me that you get to affect other peoples lives. But I've given up arguing with people now. I've adopted the principle of Fullerian demonstration.



Alexius848
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13 Oct 2013, 6:40 pm

Why does the OP hate transsexuals was he once one? The OP with his offensive, bigoted, silly and intolerant views is almost as bad as Caiden Cowger.

So to the OP please stop hating on transsexuals it's what Hitler did.



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13 Oct 2013, 7:08 pm

That was a very sad read. I hope the author gets help, not because I think they must be trans and in denial or anything like that, but because they're obviously not dealing well with their previous transgender feelings and identification. People that detransition should have as much support as currently transitioning people; changing how you're perceived can always be very hard to deal with. That doesn't give one an excuse to spew vitriol at trans women, but it makes me sad more than angry.



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14 Oct 2013, 2:37 am

Kurgan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
While transsexuals deserve the same respect as everyone else and should not be marginalized, biologically speaking, MtF transsexuals are not "real" women per se. Idolizing Johnny Cash and wishing that I was a legendary southern rock / country singer, does not mean that I am a famous country singer.

Fair enough, as long as you pick a definition of real women (female biologically, anatomically, chromosomally, and hormonally) and stick to it. That mean no considering intersexed women as being real women, so no women with CAH or AIS, women who have had certain body parts removed etc.

Can I get that as a signed piece of paper, anyway? I just want to be able to show it back to you when total sex reassignment becomes possible. :lol:


There are many factors that determine gender. There's the matter of chromosomes, but this can be overlooked if someone is completely female otherwise. There's also the matter of voice, skeletal structure, hand size, size of sweat glands, size of eyes, length of midsection of face, width of hips, etc.

Even in the most expensive and comprehensive transitions, there are still several dead giveaways that someone used to be a man.


This may apply to FtM's as well. I knew an FtM once, and though he was short and squat he had a beard and a deep voice, and had had a double mastectomy. Even so, there were times I slipped up and said "she" instead of "he" to refer to him. It was like the person, despite the somewhat male appearance, still struck me as female.



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14 Oct 2013, 2:56 am

Alexius848 wrote:
I couldn't even read past the second paragraph the person who wrote this is just an ignorant discriminatory conservative who loves picking on poor minorities who are already oppressed.

Quote:
There is no such thing as a “woman trapped in a man’s body.” This is a fantasy that men use to excuse their behavior because they don’t want to admit they’re sexually aroused by the thought of themselves dressed and behaving stereotypically “as women.” Heterosexual males who claim to be “transgender” or “transsexual” are really in the throes of passionate autogynephilia, “a male’s propensity to be attracted to the thought or image of himself as a woman.” This is most commonly expressed in the form of fetishistic cross-dressing, though there are variations and degrees. Men who decide to “transition” (i.e. transsexuals) are those who have been caught up in all the sexy excitement. The fantasy becomes sort of a fixed idea that takes over everyday life. With the encouragement of their doctors and shrinks (which is always part of the fantasy), these men take the fantasy too far.

No matter how badly their wives and children may be hurt by it (and it’s amazing how often there are young children in these families), these guys are unstoppable and will renounce their families and traumatize their young kids, just for the chance to mutilate their bodies and imitate cartoonish images of women and pierce the veil of (i.e. rape) real women’s space and hang out with other dudes with similar sexy interests and wear wigs on top of their damn bald heads every day and constantly have to shave their faces, arms, chests, backs etc in a usually-futile effort to “pass” as a woman. They insist that they really are women, just because they say so and have taken estrogen and/or had various unnecessary surgeries, or even just because they say so. These men are so obsessed that they rant with extreme shrillness and violent posturing about zomg haet crimez if anyone calmly tells them what’s really going on in their confused autogynephiliac minds. It is profoundly embarrassing for these fellows to really look within and own the fact that they get a boner (or used to get a boner) when they imagined themselves prancing around in prom gowns or being “forcibly feminized” or using the women’s toilet in a shopping mall while dressed “en femme” (tee-hee!) or taking a walk around the suburban neighborhood at 3 am wearing red high-heels.


Anyone who supports or doesn't condemn this article is guilty of hate crimes.


What punishment would you prescribe for us?



beneficii
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14 Oct 2013, 4:36 am

Alexius848 wrote:
Why does the OP hate transsexuals was he once one? The OP with his offensive, bigoted, silly and intolerant views is almost as bad as Caiden Cowger.

So to the OP please stop hating on transsexuals it's what Hitler did.


Thinking that the autogynephilia/homosexual distinction is harmful to transsexuals ignores the homosexual type, who actually prefer the distinction, as their experiences are often very different from the autogynephilic type.



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14 Oct 2013, 6:34 am

I have found out about the true reason why homosexuals are homosexuals.

Its because of them being instinctively feeling sexually attracted to certain people of their own gender.

Someone wants to do an pseudo-wise article out of this brandnew knowledge and discovery?



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14 Oct 2013, 9:41 am

Most homosexual men identify as men and most homosexual women identify as women.



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14 Oct 2013, 11:16 am

beneficii wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:
Why does the OP hate transsexuals was he once one? The OP with his offensive, bigoted, silly and intolerant views is almost as bad as Caiden Cowger.

So to the OP please stop hating on transsexuals it's what Hitler did.


Thinking that the autogynephilia/homosexual distinction is harmful to transsexuals ignores the homosexual type, who actually prefer the distinction, as their experiences are often very different from the autogynephilic type.


Tbh, given the negative way autogynephiles are characterised, no-one wants to be associated with them.


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14 Oct 2013, 3:39 pm

Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
While transsexuals deserve the same respect as everyone else and should not be marginalized, biologically speaking, MtF transsexuals are not "real" women per se. Idolizing Johnny Cash and wishing that I was a legendary southern rock / country singer, does not mean that I am a famous country singer.

Fair enough, as long as you pick a definition of real women (female biologically, anatomically, chromosomally, and hormonally) and stick to it. That mean no considering intersexed women as being real women, so no women with CAH or AIS, women who have had certain body parts removed etc.

Can I get that as a signed piece of paper, anyway? I just want to be able to show it back to you when total sex reassignment becomes possible. :lol:


There are many factors that determine gender. There's the matter of chromosomes, but this can be overlooked if someone is completely female otherwise. There's also the matter of voice, skeletal structure, hand size, size of sweat glands, size of eyes, length of midsection of face, width of hips, etc.

Even in the most expensive and comprehensive transitions, there are still several dead giveaways that someone used to be a man.

*sigh* We've been through this before. If you're going to base whether someone is a man or a woman on their skeleton, then you're just going to have to accept that girls who transition before puberty are women, and that girls who have abnormally high testosterone which masculinises their features aren't real women.

It doesn't really bother me that you're inconsistent in your beliefs, it bothers me that you get to affect other peoples lives. But I've given up arguing with people now. I've adopted the principle of Fullerian demonstration.


There are many factors, and the skeleton is ONE of them. Girls who have abnormally high testosterone are girls who have abnormaly high testosterone; they're still women, they just don't look like it.



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14 Oct 2013, 3:41 pm

beneficii wrote:
This may apply to FtM's as well. I knew an FtM once, and though he was short and squat he had a beard and a deep voice, and had had a double mastectomy. Even so, there were times I slipped up and said "she" instead of "he" to refer to him. It was like the person, despite the somewhat male appearance, still struck me as female.

That's called confirmation bias. It sticks out in your mind because it reaffirms your previously existing beliefs. You have likely at some point called someone who wasn't transgender the wrong pronoun, it just doesn't stick out in your mind because you laughed it off and forgot about it in 5 minutes. Transgender and cisgender people naturally vary so much that there isn't any one good way that you can tell just by looking at someone if they're transgender or not.

Let's have a quick example. One of these women is transgender. Can you pick out which one?

http://i.imgur.com/cVuzj7V.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/neg2OCx.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/W9ssGJX.jpg?1

Did you find her? Which picture is it?













Trick question, they're all transgender.



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14 Oct 2013, 4:26 pm

I had a few times when I was a teenager where even though I looked feminine and was presenting as female I had people think I was male. Once it was some lady at the mall, another time it was a guy in a gay bar.

Sometimes people call my mother "sir".



Last edited by hanyo on 14 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Oct 2013, 4:28 pm

Kurgan, what, then, is your definition of a real woman? Please, specify it, since you claimed skeletal features - then backtracked. You may have claimed chromosomes before, I can't remember, but then refused to acknowledge women with CAIS as not being real women (please forgive me if I am putting words in your posts). But please, give a definition and stick to it.

Okay, could you tell us which one of these women is trans?

Image

Also, would you take this girl for being manly?

Image


Anyway, back to the original topic... what about us asexuals? Especially given that 4% of transgendered people are asexual...?