Does the US still believe in freedom?

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I am using a tablet and so cannot post links. Simply do some googling! If that is too much work, I will supply the links tomorrow.
There are many examples of American citizens being held without being charged. However, lets for the moment that none have. So you are cool with the fact that the government has the legal right to arrest and keep an American in prison for years without ever charging him with a crime?
Obviously, you have no respect for international law. Since we don't have to respect a forign national's basic rights,a foreign country does not have to respect our rights? Anyway, I want to stay away from your bigotry. So lets confine the debate to American citizen's rights.
I think that at least we can agree that the government should not have the right to keep an American citizen in prison for years without even charging that person with a crime.

Last edited by wittgenstein on 14 Nov 2013, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spell out the websites that list these victims of injustice. Yes, every American citizen is entitled to the right of habeus corpus. Now produce a list of names of U.S. citizens who have been denied this right. List them or be silen.

ruveyn

What would you think of a country that said that any American visiting it could be arrested and kept in prison for decades without a trial or even being charged with a crime? Anyway, you (if you are consistent in your thinking) would not care.
So, back to only American citizens. So you are cool with the government having the power to arrest an American citizen, keep him in prison for years and never having to charge him with a crime?

Last edited by wittgenstein on 14 Nov 2013, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Every American does not have habeus corpus. At least visit the sites that I gave. If you do not trust those sites, google "indefinite detention" you will see that it applies to American citizens. You really should get more informed about a subject before posting. It is common knowledge that indefinite detention applies to American citizens.

Google, "Americans held indefinitely "

I checked the top ten hits. Not a single name. Only a complaint that an American citizen -could- be held indefinitely.

I asked for a list of name of American Citizens held indefinitely . No names yet. An empty list so far.


BTW, I do not like the law any more than you do, but I am looking for victims. I have yet to find any.

ruveyn

The right of habeas corpus still exists - the right to be brought before a judge or court after being arrested (although there are no longer any time limits if the case is considered "under investigation"). The PATRIOT Act did eliminate this right for non-US citizens.

The difference is that you can be detained indefinitely with no explanation (and technically, records are not required to be kept of the detention), but not if you are arrested. There are plenty of people that have been "detained" for no other reason than something that is not clearly defined, but listed as "suspicion," including myself for 6 hours at a police station and several hours at an airport. As for detention, your actual rights don't kick in until you are "charged."

One caveat in the original PATRIOT Act that was dropped in its latest incarnation was the ability for federal law enforcement to detain US citizens indefinitely for "strong evidence" of terrorist organization links without court proceedings if the evidence is not admissible in court or if more evidence is needed for a "sure conviction."

Believe it or not, the original PATRIOT Act had enough vague language that anyone could be locked away with no one ever knowing why or their family ever finding out. It also allowed the government to collect any information about anyone in the world that it deemed may improve national security (which is why the NSA technically never broke the law). Luckily, most of that garbage went away with the most recent renewal. Hopefully the next time it comes up, they will scrap the whole piece of excrement entirely.

Overall this isn't a huge problem in the US, but there are plenty of those who abuse it to the point of sadism.

Last edited by sonofghandi on 15 Nov 2013, 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It has lost its original purpose and has become corrupt where the federal government dictates the lives of all its citizens and also currently views the constitution as just a peice of paper and feel like it can willfully violate the rights of its people particularly the 1st second and 3rd amendment rights! It will eventually be up to the people to either A expatriate to another country in hopes for a better life and guarantee freedom or B overthrow the government and put it in its place and restructure the government for what it was originally intended! Or C. Just let the government take advantage of you.